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Old Sep 10, 2006, 5:55pm   #1
noone
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Default 1st Try at NL - n00b question on a hand

Had been playing only FL for micro-stakes and PM, but trying to learn NL and appreciate all the advice here. Finally decided to dip a toe in the water. This situation came up fairly early. Opinions, please! Thanks.

The game seemed fairly average, except for a lot of people seeing the flop, pretty much as a low-stakes FL game would be. The Button seemed somewhat LAG, going AI more than anyone else at the table. I have been playing fairly tightly, being a n00b, but have been raising pf and betting decent flopped hands pretty much as per the standard advice. I have bluffed only a couple times and been caught once, I think, so I should have a fairly tight image, to the extent anyone notices lol.

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 NL, hand #977,547,559
9 Sep 2006 10:31 PM

Seat 1: MP ($25.25) in chips)
Seat 5: Hero [KC,10H] ($45.71) in chips)
Seat 7: Button ($23.13) in chips)
Seat 8: SB ($1.10 in chips)
Seat 9: BB ($66.52 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($.12), BB posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
MP calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB folds, BB checks.

This is not my main question, but here I'm thinking KTo is good enough to limp in with in the CO, but not strong enough for a raise with the Button and Blinds still to act. Yes? No?

FLOP [board cards 10D,8D,KD ]
BB bets $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero .... ?


OK, here's the question. It seeems I want to raise this minibet, but how much? Of course, I'm concerned about the possible flush, but if anyone has one Diamond, I don't want them to draw to it, and there are also several possible straight draws that I don't want them drawing to either. Trips don't seem too likely since no one raised pf, but I beat any unmatched pocket pair. There are a lot of hands that might call that I could beat, such as AK or K-anything, K8, T8, etc. Do I try to take it down here with a large bet or even an all-in, risking the flush against me, or make a smaller raise and risk the draws? If a smaller raise, how would I assess if there were a large re-raise?

I would appreciate advice here, and then will post the continuation. Thanks.
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Old Sep 10, 2006, 6:03pm   #2
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At those stakes i wouldnt worry too much about table image, a lot of people wont be paying attention.

I think a value bet is best. As a re-raise will tell you if you're beat and at this stake people will probably call an AI with a flush draw so its hard to push them off.

I think value bet and punish anyone chasing that doesnt hit on the turn with a larger bet.
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Old Sep 10, 2006, 7:05pm   #3
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I think a good idea would be to wait till the turn for a blank (No Ace or diamond) to really push. . A diamond will bring your equity down to around 10-12% (10 is assuming 1 of your outs is dead), while a blank will bring it up to 75% (Or up to 100% if you hit your boat), assuming one or more opponents are just on draws or just top pair.

If one of your opponents has a flush, you can have a good chance to close the betting on the flop, disallowing the bettor, button, or MP to 3 bet and possibly push you off the hand.

Just calling is good, and raising has its merits too, but id just call to avoid a tough decision in a big pot with a hand that is drastically affected by what the turn brings.
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Old Sep 10, 2006, 7:18pm   #4
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5-handed KTo is good enough to raise in my book. Now being a beginner NL player, it might be best for you to simply fold KT as you're outkicked often and in a loose-passive game I want to be raising with KT more often than I'm calling.

On the flop the pot is $1.12 and with the bet coming to you is $.25 with $1.62 in the pot. You need to define your hand immediately and also at the same time punish draws so you want to slightly overbet the pot with a raise to $2.50 so the button will get 1.6 to 1 to call and would be making a very egregious error and even if the button calls then the original bettor/caller will be getting 2.6 to 1 to call and also making an error.

In terms of reads, I would only be very worried about the BB since he led out with a minimum bet and also very deep in terms of chips. Your raise to $2.50 should be sufficient enough to punish draws and if a reraise comes then you're able to fold it away and you can proceed if you get a call from somewhere.
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Old Sep 10, 2006, 7:57pm   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xigol View Post
I think a value bet is best.

For the clueless, how much would a value bet be? 1/2 pot? 3/4? Pot?

Very interesting input, all. Hoping for a few more opinions, then the next dilemma.
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Old Sep 10, 2006, 8:38pm   #6
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You can not build a tight image in micro limits you can only build a crazy image that is the only one they pay attention to. Any hand you want to play in LP can be played for a raise. I would of made it $1 preflop then 2/3 pot after the flop. If any one sticks around through that a pot sized bet on the turn. If that is called try to show it down without putting much more in the pot.
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 12:52am   #7
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Very interesting and diverse opinions. The options PF seem to be: 1) fold, 2) call, or 3) raise. Ok, got it. On the flop, it's 1) call, 2) value bet, or 3) overbet. I guess that's what makes this such an interesting and fascinating game -- so many different ways of looking at a hand.

What actually happened was close to:

Quote:
acehole_76 wrote: 2/3 pot after the flop.
I bet $1.00, which was just about 2/3 of the $1.62 pot. Button fired back with a raise to $10.00 and it was folded to me.

OK, looks like fold time, but this much of an overbet at a $2.62 pot smelled funny. Especially since, as mentioned, Button was the most LAG at the table, most AIs, etc. It didn't even need to be a stone bluff; he could have had flush draw+TP, etc., in which case it's still 2 to 1 in my favor that he doesn't hit by the river. It then occurred to me that if I were to call, he'd have $12.88 left with $12.62 total pot. Is this enough to make him feel pot-committed with any kind of hand short of the flush, including the draw? If so, then it seems that this becomes a "either put him AI or fold" decision. True? or not?

Of course, all this went through my feeble head in a lot less time than it takes to type this, and I needed to click a button pretty soon. I know that there may not be a hard-and-fast "right" answer, but with the information given, what is the general inclination? Do you lay it down and walk away quietly (or loudly)? Call? Push?
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 2:45am   #8
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With your read I like calling then moving in if a blank hits on the turn. This could be bad advice I have headache, and I have been drinking alot today.
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 8:22pm   #9
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Raise it pre-flop and bet the piss out of it on the flop and go from there.
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 8:53pm   #10
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This is a tough spot. I was recently stacked on a hand almost identical to this one, only problem was it was NL600 . I had KT and flopped top two on a suited board. Action got heavy and I convinced myself that my opponent was on a flush draw and I got it all in. He had actually flopped the nut flush! I think here your opponent has the flush or a very strong draw. Your bet was a little weaker than what I would've gone with, so if you think this guy is a complete maniac, he may have the Ace of diamonds and think he can just push you off the hand. He may figure he has 12 outs and that you will fold a high percentage of the time. In this case I tend to think that he may actually have hit the flush with two small diamonds and he may think you are drawing to the nuts. A call/push here would be highly read dependent. I think I actually prefer a fold, but I may just be pessimistic due to my recent debacle with a nearly identical hand...
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