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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:19am   #1
Got 6 Aces
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Default Playing Q,J

I hate this hand. Q,Js or Q,Jo. I'm about to give a scenario i'm regularly faced with and wonder what you would do.

9 handed table
blinds 50/100
your stack 2400
you're 4th to act
Dealt Q,Js or Q,Jo

UTG folds
2nd to act raises to 300-400
3rd to act folds
???????

What would you do here? Do you call? And if so how hard are you looking to hit the flop if you do get to see it without a re-raise behind you?

The reason i ask this is because 400 chips at this point is a fairly large portion of your stack, not to mention a possible re-raise behind. If it's a tight player raising i'm folding str8 away so in this case we'll say the player's active but not overly aggressive.

Also if anyone could replace Q,J with T,J in the same situation and what they'd do.

EDIT: I might add this is an MTT where the average chip count is 2500
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:46am   #2
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QJ beats out any hand imaginable, it gives just enough paint to make it seem like it's good, but it evens looks bad. I'd fold it nearly 90% of the time.

I can not emphasize how much I hate QJ....unless of course the flop is T98. Well by all means then
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:54am   #3
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It is deceptively pretty
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:57am   #4
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Unless I have some compelling reason to think my QJ is ahead of the raiser (e.g., he's been raising every hand and showing garbage), I'm folding with no regrets here.
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:59am   #5
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as long as my M is in the green zone i would always fold QJ, if someone raised before me.
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 3:36am   #6
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So are we agreed that with an M of 13-20+

Q,J is an EP fold, MP limp, and LP limp unless pots unopened then a 3xraise?

And with an M of 7-12

EP,MP fold and (LP limp/raise??????)

And with an M of 6 or less

FOLD, unless on the button into an unopened pot, then jam?

EDIT: And a fold into any raised pot at any stage of the tournament after the 15/30 level (pokerstars blinds)
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 3:58am   #7
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Middle position. QJ. EP raises 3-4x which is about 1/7th of our stack. Fold. And it's not close IMO. Tournament poker is about survival; winning lots of small pots and avoiding marginal situations.
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:53pm   #8
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The way I look at it, just about any hand that would warrant a 3-4BB raise pre-flop (in early position) is going to have QJ beat (and perhaps dominated). The only way I would play a hand like this at this stage of the tourney is as a drawing hand, or if I need to make a move and think QJ is about the best I can hope for.

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Old Sep 16, 2006, 2:57pm   #9
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Fold, fold, fold. This is a trap hand and too easily dominated by the likely range of raising hands.

I wouldn't even be trying to limp in with QJ from middle position, as you simply cannot stand a raise from later positions.

In late position with an unopened pot it is a good hand to try and steal the blinds.

If you do play it, you need to hit 2 pair or better othwerise you will bleed most of your stack trying to work out if you are ahead or not.
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Old Sep 16, 2006, 3:55pm   #10
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I fold here. You don't know what the five players behind you are gonna do. You're not desperate for chips with an M of around 15. Besides, the original raiser is most likely ahead of you at this point, so you would need to hit the flop very hard...

QJ is pretty but just doesn't cut it in this situation. IMO, the same goes for JT.
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