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Old Dec 30, 2006, 4:07pm   #1
Unigee
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Default Calling an all in with a low flush

I came into this hand yesterday.

I limped in with 78s and the flop gave me a flush draw.

PokerStars Game #7664582321: Tournament #39200250, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2006/12/29 - 15:56:07 (ET)
Table '39200250 2' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: punkerguy (2300 in chips)
Seat 3: Zyplen (3480 in chips)
Seat 4: unigee (5245 in chips)
Seat 5: SPEUNC (2910 in chips)
Seat 7: meme1313 (8175 in chips)
Seat 9: gulrula (4890 in chips)
punkerguy: posts the ante 25
Zyplen: posts the ante 25
unigee: posts the ante 25
SPEUNC: posts the ante 25
meme1313: posts the ante 25
gulrula: posts the ante 25
unigee: posts small blind 100
SPEUNC: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to unigee [8s 7s]
meme1313: calls 200
gulrula: folds
punkerguy: folds
Zyplen: folds
unigee: calls 100
SPEUNC: checks
*** FLOP *** [4h 2s As]
unigee: bets 200
SPEUNC: folds
meme1313: calls 200
*** TURN *** [4h 2s As] [5s]
unigee: bets 200
meme1313: raises 1000 to 1200
unigee: calls 1000
*** RIVER *** [4h 2s As 5s] [Tc]
unigee: checks
meme1313: bets 6550 and is all-in

This guy had 8k chips and was in a comfortable lead, and he wasn't playing hardly any hands, only premium whole cards.

When he called my minimum bet on the flop, I had him down for AAA, KK, or KQs

The turn gave me my flush so I made a min bet to try and trap him a little. Only for him to raise me 6xBB. This really confused me here, cus I was sure that turn helped him alot more than it did me.

When the river came out, I checked (I think I got scared here after that raise) and he just pushes.

Now as I said above, this guy was playing only premium hands and was keeping out of the pots. I used up all of my allocated time to make a decision and was 100% positive he had a better flush.
I had him down for KQs/KJs

What would you guys have done at this point? risked your tournament life on a low flush against a TAG player?
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Old Dec 30, 2006, 4:15pm   #2
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Instantly call. Set, aces up, AK, etc.
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Old Dec 30, 2006, 4:38pm   #3
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I'd have called. I wouldn't so much mind a fold if you're really convinced he's got a higher flush, but in that case just fold to the turn raise. If you're going to fold on a blank river, why call? Your line looks really weak, he probably thinks his A9 or KK is good...
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Old Dec 30, 2006, 4:57pm   #4
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Why do you play 87s if you think about folding when you make a huge hand AND get action?
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Old Dec 30, 2006, 7:52pm   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unigee View Post
When he called my minimum bet on the flop, I had him down for AAA, KK, or KQs
Really? I think you are being overly cautious here and that probably explains why you had problems making the call on the river.

You min bet on the turn to trap him and then when he raises you, you get scared. But you wanted him to raise, that's why you min bet.

The hand worked out exactly the way you wanted it to: you bet into him on the flop and got to see a cheap turn card, you min bet the turn to disguise your hand and trap him, and now you are all-in on the river. If he turns over a bigger flush, so be it, but you can't back down now.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 6:57am   #6
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Insta call. Chances of a higher flush are minimal, and even less with the A of the suit on the board, with people liking to play suited A's. It's also short handed, which further reduces the odds of another flush being out.

You showed weakness and didn't play as though you hit the flush, and he's fallen right in and pushed. That's exactly what you should have wanted. Call without hesitation. You made a low flop bet, then followed it up with another low bet after the turn. I would have raised you there, it's a fairly standard play to establish where you are in the hand. He probably raised just to represent the flush, or as a semi bluff with Ks only. Then you check the river, further showing weakness. Fairly easy for him to push a wide range of hands here. I'd be expecting to see the A, maybe two pair like A5 or AT, another pocket pair or even a complete bluff.

Also, pushing $6500 into a $3400 pot isn't a good play against another big stack if you have the nuts or near nuts. A good player with the nut flush or high flush wouldn't have pushed here, he'd make a value bet that would entice you to call. Pushing says he doesn't want you to call. Unless he thought you were a donk Push against a short stack maybe with less to lose, but pushing against the other big stack says to me go away I'm taking this pot.

As CBone said, you play suited connectors for this exact purpose. Hitting a flush with the A on the board (everyone's favourite card ) is about as good as it gets. You need to take down big pots when you play suited connectors and hit. It's the implied odds that make them worth playing. If you only want to play for small pots then don't play suited connectors.

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Old Dec 31, 2006, 10:25am   #7
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Of course you call. If you really put him on a higher flush, why did you call his turn raise?

After all maybe you are right and he has a higher flush, probably something like JTs or QJs. He does not have the nut flush, his strong turn raise and AI on the river do not make sense then. AA or KK does not make sense since he limped preflop. Maybe TT? But I think he would have raised TT after the flop, not after the turn. Well, 55 is also a good possibility. Limp preflop, cheap turn card and hitting the set. Now he is afraid you have the flush. If he is really as tight as you say he would not have played A4 or AT from EP.

OK I think he either has QJs or 55. Anyway, I feel he didn't want a call on the turn, and he does not want a call on the river as well, so I put him on 55 and call.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 10:36am   #8
Unigee
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Thanks for the input people.

Well I did actually call and he flipped over AT, which won me a massive pot.

Afer reading your replies I can see why I wanted him to raise me big here. I have been playing a bit scared recently due to various reasons.

The reason why I did call tho - although for the wrong reason? - is that I thought it would be very unlikely that he would have a flush aswell.

Quote:
A good player with the nut flush or high flush wouldn't have pushed here, he'd make a value bet that would entice you to call.
This is something I must practise and remember myself. I recently lost out on a large pot because I pushed with my quads against a fullhouse, only for him to fold on me. If I made a value bet I could probably have made him push.

Thanks for the replies people, just trying to be better. For the record, I came second in this match so it was all good in the end.
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Old Dec 31, 2006, 11:09am   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unigee View Post
Well I did actually call and he flipped over AT, which won me a massive pot.
Well, really? That's surprising. I wonder why he didn't raise the flop.

Anyway, nice play and nice pot.
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Old Jan 03, 2007, 6:24pm   #10
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Originally Posted by Unigee View Post
Well I did actually call and he flipped over AT,
This shows why leading out on a draw can be so effective. He froze when you bet and you got to see a cheap turn. If you had checked on the flop he would have probably bet the pot giving you bad odds to call.

But I don't like his play at all: limping UTG with AT, slowplaying on a suited board, raising when the flush hits, pushing after you call a huge turn raise - mistakes from start to finish. He deserved to get busted.

You played the hand perfectly, so have a bit more confidence in your own play and don't fear the reaper.
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