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Old Nov 21, 2006, 10:38pm   #11
jimmytrick
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Originally Posted by Axis of Evil View Post
What has worked for me, a competent player of $3/6 to $5/10, is to fund my $2/4 games and sng's playing $1/2. One good $1/2 session can get you three or four sng's, and winning a few of those gets the ball rolling. I never limit myself to focusing on a single limt, per se. As long as I have notes on players and am having success at any given limit, I don't hesitate to "jump down" to start my day and play the rest of the day with someone else's money.
This is nonsense on so many levels I don't know where to start Axis.

First, whenever or where ever you play you are using your own money. Trying to think any other way is just playing mind games with yourself. Mental masturbation.

Do you really need to play these games to be satisfied with your play? If you are a competent player @ 3-6 to 5-10 why are you playing lower? The only sensible reason would be if your winrate lower is sufficiently higher and translates into a greater hourly rate.

I play around in limits for stress relief, if that is what you are doing, fine. If you are dropping back in limits to build a bankroll, fine.

But if you are playing down to generate funds to play up so that you feel you are not risking your own money then it seems that you are too risk adverse to maximize your earning potential.

I believe that you need to find a way to separate your emotions and your money. It seems that you have to create structures in which you can feel sucessful without directly addressing the issue of putting it on the line at the levels you should be playing.



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Old Nov 22, 2006, 1:31am   #12
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Axis, please never ever give Bankroll management advices again. Nothing personal, but every times I saw one of your post about it, it was just plain wrong advice. Im sure you're a good at playing, but your money management is just atrocious.

To OP, I say give it a shot... Buy in short if it helps you feel more confortable. Anything that makes you go to 100-200NL faster is good. The difference between 10NL and 200NL is thin enough that with a bit more experience and hand reading, you shouldnt have a lot more difficulty to win. But you will win 20X more of course ;)
I think most people agree that one of the biggest jump is 200-400nl so get to 200NL as fast as you can.
You have 10buyins for 25NL? give it a shot ( 2 buyins). If you lose, just go back to 10NL till you get 10buyins again. 10NL and 25NL is pretty much the same thing.
Id do the same for 50NL. You have to feel comfotable at the table tho! IMO, nothing helps your confidence as much as sitting in at half buyin for the first 2-10 times.

Of course everything I said is not proper BR management.... But the games till 100NL are soooo passive that variance is pretty low. Table selection is a must of course.
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 3:26am   #13
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i think when i made my post i was being a bit short sighted and focusing on the money. upon further reflection, i came to the realization that, more than anything, i want to be a winning player. getting impatient and jumping limits isn't going to help that. i may dabble in the 25NL from time to time. I find that i'm more comfortable at SH tables and finding a SH 10NL table at bodog is hard at certain times (they don't offer them, but at certain times of the day i can find a few tables that don't fill up). but i digress...

there are quite a few leaks in my play that i need to plug first and i still make mistakes that i shouldn't. i'm going to stick to first and foremost the 5% BR rule (which i have finally achieved after reaching $270) and stay at the limit i'm playing, or will be playing, until that limit has not become much of a challenge anymore. if any of you see any flaws in this line of thinking, please feel free to post. thanks.
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 4:45am   #14
Axis of Evil
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This is nonsense on so many levels I don't know where to start Axis.

First, whenever or where ever you play you are using your own money. Trying to think any other way is just playing mind games with yourself. Mental masturbation.

Do you really need to play these games to be satisfied with your play? If you are a competent player @ 3-6 to 5-10 why are you playing lower? The only sensible reason would be if your winrate lower is sufficiently higher and translates into a greater hourly rate.

I play around in limits for stress relief, if that is what you are doing, fine. If you are dropping back in limits to build a bankroll, fine.

But if you are playing down to generate funds to play up so that you feel you are not risking your own money then it seems that you are too risk adverse to maximize your earning potential.

I believe that you need to find a way to separate your emotions and your money. It seems that you have to create structures in which you can feel sucessful without directly addressing the issue of putting it on the line at the levels you should be playing.


So what if I am playing down to generate funds to play up to feel like I am not risking my own money? I don't need to "seperate my emotions from my money" at all. If I can win $20 at a $1/2 table and turn it into $90 in an sng then that is perfectly fine money management so put down your poker books and give some real advice to novice players that have not yet seperated their own emotions from their money. My bankroll is up almost $200 today using my own strategies, and I may not be playing at the levels some of you regularly play, but enough already with the "that advice is terrible" routine, for crying out loud. I have a strategy that works, others may or may not want to hear it, and it does what it is intended to do and that is to allow me to play poker as a hobby and for fun, making gains along the way, without being too reckless and losing more than I care to by disassociating myself from given outcomes.

I know what you guys are saying about simply playing at the level that maximizes return and that works fine. I don't know why you all fixate on what is simply my technique and declare it "bad advice" or whatever some always seem to do? Don't take it as advice then, take it as one players approach to skimming profits from the poker machine. Could I be making more per hour? Probably? I could be losing more also and if that makes me too risk averse then what I am doing is just fine.

I took a foreman training class a few years back and one of the exercises involved each student folding a piece of paper in half, again and again and again. When the papers were unfolded the instructor pointed out how no two papers were creased in the same manner and that there are many ways to tackle a problem to seek a similar outcome. Poker is like that, having many ways to approach the game while still making money. The money I save not playing many tournaments makes up for my lower hourly rate I guess? If you guys disagree with a certain approach then just say so. Why the need to belittle me and put me down like a schoolyard bully? I don't get it? Would you prefer that I declare I am a $1/2 limit ace and that I only dabble in the higher limits? Would that bring you satisfaction?

The truth of the matter is that I only work sporadically and have a child on the way and don't have the kind of bankroll anymore that I am used to having since a lot of it goes to pay the morgtage. It is out of neccesity that I start out small in the morning and work my way up to bigger games, but I certainly cannot stomach the idea of playing the micro-limits and that crazy play due to the fact that I have only so much per day to play with and risk losing, therefore I play in a manner where I don't lose it. Others may be in the same boat as me and so I post my experiences. If it is not "proper poker advice" then I apologize. What it is however is a strategy that works for me and if one other person can benefit by using it or by using it as an example of how not to seriously play then my posting it has served the intended purpose. Any great player would see it for what it is. I have the sneaking suspicion that some of you are wanna-be know-it-alls that are quick to criticise any approach that doesn't mimic your own view of how things should be. It doesn't change my approach one bit.

If I can muster up $40 or $50 bucks in an early morning session to use as investment capital for sng's or higher limits then I see nothing wrong with that. It's money i didn't have when I woke up that is now working for me. I know I won't get rich in the short-term, but $50 a day goes a long way when work is scarce and a once impressive poker bankroll has been used for bills and the like. I do have plenty of applied poker skill at the table but maybe my approach to theory is on the unorthodox side. I would love to be playing at the higher limits that I know I can beat but when the doctor tells you a baby is coming then there is no shame in stepping down for awhile to rake in what I consider easy money and playing it safe. Not everyone can just "go for it" and detach their emotions from their money so easily. I have done it for years and stayed on top of the game. Now I am adopting a more conservative mindset and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Thanks for reading this with an open mind and understanding where I am coming from. I read your advice with a fine-toothed comb to get better and like to contribute my own experiences. I am sorry if they don't live up to your expectations. Peace!
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 5:12am   #15
1idjack
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forgive me, i can't resist:

Axis of Evil

You little punk. I've got rent, child support, alimony...


vs.

The rest of the posters

You see all thte angles, but don't have the balls to take a shot
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 7:01am   #16
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Jack, you got it backward. Axis is the little punk here, not the contrary.
hes the one advocating taking shots at higher levels. I do too tho, but its not why I think its bad advice.
Its not because we like to critisize you Axis, its just that your strategy seems from our point of view to be wrong on many levels. Sure, perhaps it has worked for you, but if someone asks for advices, you should provid solid ones, not some wierd home made stretagies that worked for you because you're obviously a winning player.
If OP is a break even or slightly losing player, your advices on the matter will have VERY bad consequences.
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 7:04am   #17
Axis of Evil
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Hehe, nice touch.

Well it was either that story explaining the method to my madness ,or the madness to my method, or to call my critics unflattering names, but I don't think they meant to sound as bad as it reads. Nonsense, they say!

Since you're on a Rounders kick, did anyone else wonder how when Damon is heads-up against KGB, and Matt picks up his cards for everyone standing around him to see, as plain as day, why none of Teddy's cronies clue him in that he is beat by the straight? Is that what they mean by the "willfull suspension of disbelief?" Now that is f*ckin' nonsense! I guess that movie came out before the pocker-cam was invented?

PS- I have to respectfully disagree that my "advice" will have "VERY bad consequences" for OP. What is the worst that could happen? It's not like I am asking him to disassociate his emotions from his money and play with no regard to his losses. If anything, what I advocated will be a more conservative approach until he gets his feet wet. Playing with your winnings, now that's a silly concept.

Last edited by Axis of Evil; Nov 22, 2006 at 7:09am.
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