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Old Jan 12, 2007, 5:49am   #11
staphros
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I posted the hand originally to generate discussion.

I stated in my original post that what i did was the dumbest thing to do.

At my point in the game and being so far from the payouts.

Scenario: About 720 entrees: 90 people left - 72 players Cash.
Guy on the bubble in 72nd place has just over 10K. I am in about 87th place.

The only thing I can do is Push/Fold.

Calling was wrong and the worst thing I could do as I have already stated.

What I was attempting to convey in a MTT is that if you keep folding your hand waiting for a bigger hand - you will end up folding your bigger hand.

Thus with the looser play (caused by blind sizes) at the table going AI preflop would be the most EV+ I believe. Especially with a reasonably high suited connector - which would play well in a multi way pot. (with my small stack i'd expect at least 2 calls one out of position and one on the blinds or near the button.)

The fact the hand would have held up is irrelevent. I missed a glaring chance to make a move and by calling i made it even worse.


Axis Aceholes point is correct and I wanted confirmation so that any new players who look at the forum (which there are many) will look at the hand and say.

"Well i'd normally call there". Then they will see everyones rational for raising or folding before calling.

This hand is HIGHLY situational but with the aforementioned information it is an easy push.


The exact same hand with 10/20 blinds or equal chips is near enough instafold. The same could be said if I was only one or two places from the money.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 6:39am   #12
Axis of Evil
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So why not call the raise if you thought an all-in was appropriate? Was picking up the blinds your motivation? If not, you shouldn't have folded. I just am sick of people using words like "idiot" when they disagree with someone. Next time I'll get out my magnifying glass so as to not miss a bit of info in the hand history before I post an unimportant and quickly written post that was meant to basically say no big deal and don't worry about it.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 7:13am   #13
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I think folding preflop is best because of the limper; he's going to call and he's going to be ahead. On that note, when he limps and calls a push, he has a very good hand. You're probably a 2:1 dog to his hand at best. (AT+, TT+)

Quote:
So why not call the raise if you thought an all-in was appropriate?
Because calling pushes with JT sucks. You're almost always a dog when called; most of the +ev is from your folding equity.

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How is the call the problem?
It's hard to get value on speculative hands when you have a 6 BB stack.

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You made the money so it is what it is.
This is dangerous and foolish thinking.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 9:15am   #14
eugsti
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Default ok fold? I

30 players left in the 20$ stars NLHE 180 tourney. I'm sitting there with something like 4500 (M=7) and KQo, late position. I have my cursor over at the All In button, but then two guys in EP go All In and they both have me covered. Now what? I would defenetly call one raiser, but two? Smells like KK or even only AK would be a bad one for me, but then again, it's a chance to triple up which would be a good idea as I'm getting shortstacked. I ended up folding. One guy held 77, the other AK. So acutally a good fold. Flop was QQK and I cried :-)).
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 9:16am   #15
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oh sorry, my last post should have been a new topic :-))
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 10:39am   #16
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To Staphros: in your initial post you say that you should go all-in , hoping for an AK or PP to call.
I have to agree on the going all-in because you have to make a move very soon, and J10s with one limper is just fine for that move. But I would hope to get everyone to fold, because anyone calling you will have a better hand. After limping the only sensible thing to do against 2 others is fold.

To Axis: your first post looks like it's beside the point because no one is discussing if you should call or fold after seeing 2 people covering your stack going all-in. If you have time to post, then also read what the post is about.

Your 2nd reply has me worried. I could be misunderstanding it, but to me it seems you think the preflop call is ok because you are not going to chase anyone away by raising. please just correct me here because if that is really what you where saying than you must stop giving advice and start taking it.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 1:44pm   #17
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Originally Posted by Rafvdv View Post
I could be misunderstanding it, but to me it seems you think the preflop call is ok because you are not going to chase anyone away by raising. please just correct me here because if that is really what you where saying than you must stop giving advice and start taking it.

That is what he is saying, and it isnt the first time his advice was the opposite of what a winning player would do. Axis your advice is poison to a learning player, and ah nevermind a new player will read my comments shortly after yours and be saved .
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fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

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Old Jan 12, 2007, 2:51pm   #18
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The Saga continues.................DAH DAH DAH!!!

Next time on "The Real World, Pokertips"........AoE gets trashed screaming "I had a FLush, A fucking flush" and Jimmy Trick throws a cat at him.

Acehole discovers another side of himself and apologizes.

Don't miss the action
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 2:52pm   #19
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You guys make me laugh!!
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 6:20pm   #20
Axis of Evil
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All I originally said was that it was a good fold. Hardly "dangerous" thinking, but someone we know has to get the flame posts going and turn threads into this. I tend to raise with suited connecters like JT and most likely would have in this situation. FYI, I do take most of the advice on this site to heart, but if you think that anything anyone writes at anytime is somehow "advice" then no wonder some of you get so upset at the slightest things.

I think I know what some of you mean. If you push all-in and get a caller, the cards will be different than if you get put all-in and call. Hmmm? The original poster says he missed an opportunity for a big pot, but in reality he wanted to steal the blinds. If you wanted a caller on your all-in then you wouldn't have folded. Does the hand somehow magically change because you weren't first into the pot? The guy with the ace would have most likely called your little stack so it's six of one, a half dozen of the other. The outcome is the same, no matter what your little calculations tell you. How could you have "missed a great opportunity" if you didn't want a caller? And if you wanted a caller you would not have folded.

I know someone will find fault with that logic so go ahead and declare to the world that I don't know a thing about the game. Who cares?

Last edited by Axis of Evil; Jan 12, 2007 at 6:33pm.
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