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Old Jan 12, 2007, 5:57pm   #21
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I thought this hand was a cut and dry issue - perhaps I could have played it differently???

I still think All in is the best. If I didn't all in then I should have folded.

But having such a low M I think All In was my only real option.

Calling was the dumbest play (and the one I made).

I guess there could be a small case for folding preflop?
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 6:13pm   #22
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I thought this hand was a cut and dry issue - perhaps I could have played it differently???

I still think All in is the best. If I didn't all in then I should have folded.

But having such a low M I think All In was my only real option.

Calling was the dumbest play (and the one I made).

I guess there could be a small case for folding preflop?
This hand is cut and dry: M<5 = push or fold. I'm leaning towards a push. You have three more hands after this one until you're AI with ATC from the BB. I much prefer pushing something like JTs in this position than Ax as you are much more likely to have two live cards. You probably wouldn't pick up anything better than this in the next few hands anyways.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 6:26pm   #23
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This hand is cut and dry: M<5 = push or fold. I'm leaning towards a push. You have three more hands after this one until you're AI with ATC from the BB. I much prefer pushing something like JTs in this position than Ax as you are much more likely to have two live cards. You probably wouldn't pick up anything better than this in the next few hands anyways.

Thats exactly what I thought. Hence I posted originally as how not to play (calling).

Seems like quite a few people would play it different but I should have just pushed with JTs it plays well vs Ax (unless X is a J).
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 9:56pm   #24
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Well you did ask in the original post if anyone disagreed with this being a dumb mistake, to which I did not disagree, just said that folding was no big deal. Did you actually mean "approve my thoughts" or were you looking for a discussion? As you must have noticed I do play the devil's advocate at times for discussion's sake alone. Is there only one answer to every query or only one way to analyze a situation? It seems so...

I still don't see a difference between going all-in or calling an all-in. If this was a "missed opportunity" then you wanted more than the blinds in the pot. Taking down the blinds with an all-in move isn't exactly some great opportunity, but it would have helped. I just think that playing this hand would have had you all-in either way, so the call and fold is a mistake.

So if you don't call the all-in because you are behind then when do you play any draw? Most draws start out as underdogs unless it's like AKs or something similar. Should all draws be folded? I've heard the 9-8 called the trip-killer but it is most probably always dominated by a face card, so should it never be played? To determine that there is only one way to play a certain hand at a certain time makes your play predictable. In this case, calling the all-in would have resulted in a win so was a proper play. If you pushed and had a caller there would be no discussion. If you called the all-in and won there would be no discussion. You made the worst play and somehow I am the idiot? I think I am only an idiot for entertaining juvenile attacks for simply participating in this forum.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 10:16pm   #25
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There is an enormous difference between calling an AI and pushing AI. If you push AI everybody may fold and you take down the Blinds and Antes. If you call an AI your hand has to stand up. You will always need a stronger hand to call an AI than you do to push AI - the gap concept. Calling and then folding with an M<5 is a terrible play whatever your hand, drawing or not, in a NLHE tournament.
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Old Jan 12, 2007, 10:43pm   #26
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You made the worst play and somehow I am the idiot? I think I am only an idiot for entertaining juvenile attacks for simply participating in this forum.

I never said you were an idiot - I didn't say anything negative to anyone.
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Old Jan 13, 2007, 1:16am   #27
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I never said you were an idiot - I didn't say anything negative to anyone.

He is an idiot so dont apologize for anything the fact you didnt say it means you just havent typed it yet. Axis the way he played this hand was the most -ev of all. Folding fine AI even better limp then calling the AI not ideal but what are you going to do. Calling then folding is awful the OP new this and wanted to show that you need pay attention and keep your focus to play your best. Also after he made that mistake he still made the money which shows he didnt give up another important lesson. Somehow you didnt agree that he played it badly.....because? Your an Im board go ahead call then fold with SC with an M of 5 good luck with that..
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Old Jan 13, 2007, 2:38pm   #28
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Whatever you jerk. All I said to elicite your ire was that folding was a good idea in the situation he was in, to which your last comments agree. Imagine that? You'll find fault with anything I may write so go play in the road you little punk.

If someone says they missed an opportunity then it is fair to assume they didn't mean stealing the blinds. A push with a call would of had the same outcome as a call of an all-in so you can take your M and your XYZ for that matter and shove it.

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Old Jan 13, 2007, 4:30pm   #29
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If someone says they missed an opportunity then it is fair to assume they didn't mean stealing the blinds. A push with a call would of had the same outcome as a call of an all-in so you can take your M and your XYZ for that matter and shove it.
Pushing JTs and not getting a call here would have added 3625 to a stack of 6115.
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 6:20am   #30
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Unlike most of the people here, i think my play would be to fold, heres why:

The limper in front of you has lowered your +EV significantly because he is much less likely to fold

Also, You lost your "first in vigorish", resulting in the situation above

with the information you provided, it was very likley that someone was going to raise, and this hand is easily dominated with what these players could be raising with.

So in conclusion, Fold here and pick a better spot
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