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Old Feb 21, 2007, 10:28pm   #11
Nikitis
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1. i never said they were stupid, i just said it was a bad strategy

2. u dont bring a knife to a gun fight.....and you can forward that to chris ferguson
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Old Feb 21, 2007, 10:59pm   #12
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Right as your were posting this happened:

PokerStars Game #8556449272: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/02/21 - 18:52:37 (ET)
Table 'Euforbo II' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: pierrico ($173.80 in chips)
Seat 2: greg1osu ($196 in chips)
Seat 3: schem11 ($239.85 in chips)
Seat 4: Timbilo ($38 in chips)
Seat 5: TayTayJack23 ($211.25 in chips)
Seat 7: thehangman6 ($155.80 in chips)
Seat 8: jasoakridge ($199.65 in chips)
Seat 9: imthekng ($150.50 in chips)
Timbilo: posts small blind $1
TayTayJack23: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Timbilo [Kc Ks]
thehangman6: folds
Mettalic leaves the table
jasoakridge: folds
imthekng: calls $2
pierrico: calls $2
greg1osu: calls $2
mikeduin joins the table at seat #6
schem11: raises $8 to $10
Timbilo: raises $28 to $38 and is all-in
TayTayJack23: folds
imthekng: folds
pierrico: folds
greg1osu: folds
schem11: calls $28
*** FLOP *** [9h Th 8h]
*** TURN *** [9h Th 8h] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [9h Th 8h 5s] [3d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Timbilo: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
schem11: mucks hand
Timbilo collected $81 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $84 | Rake $3
Board [9h Th 8h 5s 3d]
Seat 1: pierrico folded before Flop
Seat 2: greg1osu folded before Flop
Seat 3: schem11 (button) mucked [6s 6c]
Seat 4: Timbilo (small blind) showed [Kc Ks] and won ($81) with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: TayTayJack23 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: thehangman6 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: jasoakridge folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: imthekng folded before Flop



You can bring your gun I'll bring my freaking rubber band and paperclip if it'll work. That would have been a tough flop to play kings on if I was deepstacked, let me tell you what! Had I had 200 behind me (and only raised to 25 preflop) I would have either a) won less if the villian folded or b) been faced with an unenviable position of being OOP on a 3 to the flush/straight board in a pot already sitting at $60. A pair of kings with no heart wouldn't look so great then...

I'm not saying this is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the wheel, I'm just saying don't knock it until you try it and can appreciate some of the merits. $40 is what I'd be happy with in a couple hours of grinding at 25NL playing the correct way, and 25 or weak tabled 50 NL is all my bankroll can afford.

Last edited by Timbilo; Feb 21, 2007 at 11:20pm.
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 1:17am   #13
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no arguments there
you have to play poker, when you sit with something you aren't pushing in preflop

i like playing poker

if you cant fold KK or AA ever....no matter what the flop is, and you are worried about losing 200 with that flop......then you should be buying in for the minimum

but overall its not winning poker
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 2:40am   #14
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Originally Posted by Nikitis View Post

but overall its not winning poker
Argh! If your definition of winning poker is "To win money off of others", then it can be winning poker. That's what I'm trying to prove to you!

If your definition of winning poker is something more intrinsic such as "to improve as a poker player" or "to be the best player at the table", then no, it wouldn't qualify as winning poker.

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if you cant fold KK or AA ever....no matter what the flop is, and you are worried about losing 200 with that flop......then you should be buying in for the minimum
I only wish I had the bankroll to buy in for 200! In the mean time, I'll keep buying in short stacked and make more per hour than I would playing great poker at 25 NL.

At least this is good banter. I have a feeling we're both set in our mindsets so we'll just have to agree to disagree
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 4:00am   #15
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Timbilo, why don't you play $100nl for a full stack (or at least a less short stack) if it's just BR that's the problem?
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 5:48am   #16
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Timbilo: shows [Kc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
schem11: mucks hand
Timbilo collected $81 from pot
Quote:
but overall its not winning poker
Eh?
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 1:27pm   #17
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Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
Timbilo, why don't you play $100nl for a full stack (or at least a less short stack) if it's just BR that's the problem?
Its my second reason too, that I’m only doing this in the background while working. If I’m going to play completely in the dark regarding reads, then I want to simplify my prospective decisions as much as possible. Having the smallest stack in relation to the blind sizes helps limit those decisions.

“Standard” wisdom argues to call a raise with a low pocket pair if you feel as if you can win approximately 8-10 times the raise in the hand a.k.a. your implied odds. When I bring 40 to a 200 table, pick up a big pair or other top flight hand, I can raise to 7-8 (4x the blinds) preflop. Since I now only have 32 left, the best a small pocket pair or suited connector can get for implied odds is 4X. I know the players at this level understand this concept and throw away their low pockets, so when the flop comes 4-6-9 I’m not that worried, and generally have no qualms about betting the flop and pushing the turn. Sure, someone could have aces to my kings or whatnot, but that’s the variance for you.

Now if I bring 40 to a 100 table and the same situation arises, I once again raise 4X the big blind to $4. Now however, with 36 left the villains would be getting their correct implied odds to call my raise with their low pockets if their feel as if they would stack me. Since the style I’m playing is pretty transparent as to what my cards are, many would certainly feel this way. Now a flop of 4-6-9 (or 8-9-10 hearts as in my example) will require me to many times make read-based decisions on the villain. However, since I have no reads since I’m not paying active attention to the table, and am left in an unenviable position.

It’s the idiots who do this wrong either through tilt or a lack of understanding that reraise all-in preflop with things like k-10 offsuit and the like that make this possible. Look at my last example- if the person with pocket sixes had never seen a shortstack do this with k-10 offsuit or pocket twos, would he have called at all? Probably not.

Yes, I know many of you are itching to type “people will just take notes on you and you won’t get any action”. Once I notice significantly less action I’ll just go to another site, and then another site after that. Eventually I hope to be able to move up limits and try this.

Finally, please remember I’m doing my actual “poker” playing at home, where I can concentrate and play the right way.

EDIT: TWLLM and everyone else- please don't take my long in-depth posts as an insult to your intelligence or whatnot. I have a journalism degree and this long, in-depth writing style is just the way I roll when I write.

Last edited by Timbilo; Feb 22, 2007 at 2:03pm.
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 2:29pm   #18
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I don't want to beat a dead horse and I'm content to let this thread die a gracious death, but I thought one more hand might help. As long as I'm winning 2/3 of the pots for my stack its money in the long run.

Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Hand Start.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 1 : e slim has $183
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 2 : JacTheLad has $495.75
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 3 : gigaman has $158.01
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 4 : DAVIACES has $340.75
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 5 : devlinfish has $448.75
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 6 : dingdangdu has $95.75
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 7 : GoRams1 has $42
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 8 : ippsin has $74
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : Seat 9 : DJKAT has $192.75
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:20] : e slim is the dealer.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:25] : JacTheLad posted small blind.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:25] : gigaman posted big blind.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:25] : Game [41028] started with 9 players.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:25] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:26] : Seat 7 : GoRams1 has Jh Js
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:37] : DAVIACES called $2
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:48] : devlinfish called $2
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:52] : dingdangdu folded.
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:56] : GoRams1 called $2 and raised $10
[Feb 22 03:20 pm:57] : ippsin folded.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:01] : DJKAT called $12
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:02] : e slim folded.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:04] : JacTheLad folded.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:06] : gigaman called $10
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:10] : DAVIACES called $10
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:16] : devlinfish called $10
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:17] : Dealing flop.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:17] : Board cards [5c 3s 2d]
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:23] : gigaman checked.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:25] : DAVIACES checked.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:27] : devlinfish checked.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:31] : GoRams1 bet $30 and is All-in
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:46] : DJKAT folded.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:49] : gigaman called $30
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:51] : DAVIACES folded.
[Feb 22 03:21 pm:55] : devlinfish called $30 and raised $406.75 and is All-in
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:07] : gigaman called $116.01 and is All-in
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:07] : Showdown!
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:07] : Seat 7 : GoRams1 has Jh Js
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:09] : Seat 3 : gigaman has 4h 4c
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:09] : Seat 5 : devlinfish has 9s 9d
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:09] : Seat 7 : GoRams1 has Jh Js
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : Board cards [5c 3s 2d 8s 3h]
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : Seat 5 : devlinfish has 9s 9d
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : devlinfish has Two Pair: 9s and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : Seat 3 : gigaman has 4h 4c
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : gigaman has Two Pair: 4s and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : devlinfish wins $230.20 with Two Pair: 9s and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : Seat 5 : devlinfish has 9s 9d
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : devlinfish has Two Pair: 9s and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : Seat 7 : GoRams1 has Jh Js
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : GoRams1 has Two Pair: Jacks and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : Seat 3 : gigaman has 4h 4c
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : gigaman has Two Pair: 4s and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:15] : GoRams1 wins $149.82 with Two Pair: Jacks and 3s
[Feb 22 03:22 pm:30] : Hand is over.


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Old Feb 22, 2007, 2:53pm   #19
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I think it was in one of Phil Gordon's books that he advised buying in with a smaller stack if your up against tougher competition. It cuts done on your difficult decisions and post-flop play.
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Old Feb 22, 2007, 3:11pm   #20
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GoRams1 wins $149.82 with Two Pair: Jacks and 3s


Quote:
but overall its not winning poker


Eh? Eh? Eh?

I'm not trying to be an ass here, I am just trying to make you see the point Niki.
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