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Old Mar 16, 2007, 3:03pm   #21
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I think you are generalizing short stacks too much ( maybe I missed something in the tread that says different ).

Usually short stacks are weak players in some way and you can exploit that. But be carefull in how you do it. What works for one will fail for the other.
You have those lot's of different types.

- Push/fold type
- calling stations
- loose preflop/tight postflop
- Those who limp with only 10BB left and then fold to a 3xBB raise
.
.

While your strategy will work for the first type, it will fail completely for 2nd type. On top of that the other player in the blind or button could be good and pick up your play any start reraising you with A2C.

What you should do is try to find an optimal play against each player type. If they have a very short stack or a medium or full stack should only matter a little bit. ( example. vs a short stack. high cards go up in value and low PP or low suited connectors go down)
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 4:16pm   #22
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Aces, do you make the same min-raise when you are holding a monster hand?

I ask this because Phil Gordon (Little Green Book) talks of a strategy that is similar to your line of thinking regarding playing from the SB. He limps a lot of hands from the SB and folds to a raise but he also sometimes limps a big hand like AA or KK, and then 3bets when he gets raised.

His thinking behind this is he limps 4 times and gets raised off his hand for a net loss of 2bb (4x completing the blind), he limps AA and 3bets the villain off his hand for a net profit of 3bb (the villains std raise). So he makes a net profit of 1bb every 5 hands he plays this way.

So when devising strategies to push a small edge, you are in good company. All those blinds will add up in the long run.
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 6:44pm   #23
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Rav you're right, it seems i've generalised a bit. I was talking about this new breed of player that sits down with the minimum buy-in (20BB) and waits for a set hand before pushing. They don't have either the skill or the stack size to be incorporating much of a strategy to their play pre or post flop.

And Sid i'll raise normally (4x) with a good holding, they're going to be folding unless they've got one of a set number of hands anyway so you may as well deny them the implied odds if they decide to see a flop. And that little green book is on my shopping list
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 7:24pm   #24
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Well these are just things that come to my mind, in no paricular order:
  • The min buy in at pokerroom (ongame) is 10BB only
  • Most people dont see minraises as raises
  • Folding the BB regularly to a min raise is a big mistake
  • People who make mistakes like that should be taken advanagde of
  • I cant really imagine a frequent occuring situation where minraising first in preflop is the best play. I am very sorry, but you "strtegy" is not very sound, it violates many principles and is sure not the best expectational play (in most scenarios).
  • I know that short stacks affect my own affectiv stack in a way, that its onyl as big as theirs. I know how to adjust to that circumstance and I know minraising isnt one of my adjustments.
  • I think short stacks are easier pushed out of small pots.
  • I think they are harder to push out of "big" pots, hence the raise-and-give-up strat is pretty good.
  • Lets say you minraise ATC on the button when its folded and 2 shorties ar in the blinds. Say they fold everything exept 66+,AT+, KJ. against those hands you are a big underdog and will lose at least 2BB. You can do the math and figure out your expectation on that play. It wont be very high, if even positive.
  • Your ATC has no implied odds, which is paricularly bad when playing junk hands, because you cant give bad reverse implied odds to their typical TP hands.
  • You shouldnt respond too rude to other users that are statiing opinion that differ from yours.
  • Against a serious short stack professional, i.e. a bonus whore at NL400 with 35BB stacks to buy in, you will fail horribly with your strategy. If your strategy is not intended to be used against those opoonents, you should clarify when you strategy (supposedly) is a good one.
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 7:42pm   #25
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Bubbleboy you think if you spout a whole load of poker jargon it will mask your inability to understand a lot of the things you claim to know about. Will you please stay away from my threads in future as i require only knowledgable poker players for interaction. You muppet.

EDIT - You're almost as dangerous as another poster here i wont mention. You both chat bullshit about things you don't understand, the only difference is your ability to hide it is much better. Which in itself is extremely dangerous to poker newbies. Stay the fuck away from my threads.
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 8:14pm   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got 6 Aces View Post
Bubbleboy you think if you spout a whole load of poker jargon it will mask your inability to understand a lot of the things you claim to know about. Will you please stay away from my threads in future as i require only knowledgable poker players for interaction. You muppet.

EDIT - You're almost as dangerous as another poster here i wont mention. You both chat bullshit about things you don't understand, the only difference is your ability to hide it is much better. Which in itself is extremely dangerous to poker newbies. Stay the fuck away from my threads.
wow, you're an idiot
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 8:21pm   #27
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Youre telling me he knows what he's talking about? You're the idiot.
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 8:36pm   #28
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Right know I dont understand why you are responding in such a way 6 aces, but I will think about it.
When I have made up my mind I will respond, but in a way you are probably not used to.

Until then maybe you can give some deeper insight into your strategy so its to be understood more easily by other advice seeking and advice giving forum members.
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Old Mar 16, 2007, 11:13pm   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjitsu
Let's face it, we're all pretty bad. We're playing SSNL for a reason
or something like that.
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Old Mar 17, 2007, 1:30am   #30
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All i'm saying is i very rarely make a post like this one. I take time out of my day to make a thoughtful inciteful post about ONE positive strategy that can be used on the tables.

I say at the NL25-50 level with 20 BB's

And your response is bullshit. A stream of bullshit that has fuck all to do with my strategy. Then you go even further and start saying that it wont work at NL400 against a pro with 35 BB's. WHERE THE FUCK HAS THAT COME FROM?!?!?

You're just looking for nit picking things to belittle my idea when you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. You're an idiot, i don't like you and i don't care for anything you have to say on these boards bubble boy. And fuck you to kid hustlr.

I can't believe this was the shit i got after making such an informative thread derived from something i've spent a lot of time thinking about. i'm keeping any further ideas to myself. You say that Notjitsu and others are great thinkers well so am i, nowhere near the ninja's caliber but my lateral thinking with poker is something that will benefit this forum in years to come, but i wont put up with idiots that question my strategy's by arguing it doesn't work in a long series of completely unrelated scenario i didn't even mention just because he doesn't like me.
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Last edited by Got 6 Aces; Mar 17, 2007 at 1:37am.
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