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Old Apr 01, 2007, 3:13pm   #11
BubbleBoy
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So worse hands call a reraise? I dont think so. And if your hand looks bad in the face of implied/rev implied odds. I would say reraising AJ vs a CO raiser is more of a resteal than a value raise. Anyways, its different from what you do at micro stakes, where an UTG raise get 3 calls and you repop it.
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Old Apr 01, 2007, 6:32pm   #12
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I have lost 4-5 buyins in the span of a couple of minutes to bad beats while multi-tabling. I assume that OP would agree that 10 buyins is not sufficient if you are playing 4-6 tables at a time.
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Old Apr 01, 2007, 7:33pm   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleBoy View Post
So worse hands call a reraise? I dont think so. And if your hand looks bad in the face of implied/rev implied odds. I would say reraising AJ vs a CO raiser is more of a resteal than a value raise. Anyways, its different from what you do at micro stakes, where an UTG raise get 3 calls and you repop it.
Yes, how about suited connectors, some suited aces, KQ etc, and since I have position AJ is basically better than small pairs. People don't just play big hands to reraises so its not like they won't be folding anything but AQ+ and JJ+ to a 3bet - and if they did then obviously they would get eaten alive or they would be a huge nit who would be easy to spot.

Another good thing about AJ is that you won't fall in love with your hand; I'm rarely going to stack off on an A high flop in a reraised pot so people calling with speculative hands (OOP) are making a big mistake.

Don't get me wrong AJ is definitely the cutoff hand for reraising for value but in certain spots but it can be good - I guess thats what I'm trying to say. If you are reraising AJ against a 10/8/2 guy then you are spewing, but if you are doing it against a 32/27/3 then it is going to be profitable all other things being equal. Poker is about adjusting to your opponents not just playing hand charts.

Here are some situations for you to think about.

1) CO raises with 87s and gets 3bet by me with AJ, they probably fold a decent amount but sometimes they get annoyed or overestimate their implied odds "he is 3betting so he must have a good hand" and call. I have position and the best hand so things are looking good.

2) CO raises with 77 and I reraise with AJ, the majority of the time they won't hit their hand and will generally not want to be playing a large pot out of position with 2nd or 3rd pair so I take down the pot.

3) CO raises with AK and I reraise with AJ, assuming they call and don't 4bet I am still in good shape. Unless the flop comes A/K high then I have a good chance to win the pot since people generally don't mess around with A high OOP in a reraised pot. If the flop does come A high then its not like I'm stacking off anyway.
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Old Apr 01, 2007, 10:58pm   #14
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I too think the bankroll requirements are a bit low. I believe Ozone once said something like "the best cash game players are fearless. The most fearless ones are the ones with the best bankroll behind them". I would like at least 15 and at the moment I am very happy playing with 40 at the moment.

Otherwise a very good post and I certainly have a lot of learning left to do ;).
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Old Apr 01, 2007, 11:20pm   #15
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The thing is that playing over-bankrolled is highly -EV.

1. You win less at lower limits.
2. Your learning curve at the lower limit is increasing slower.

The higher you play
- the more you win
- the faster you can move up
- the more you learn
- the faster your bankroll grows.
Its as easy as this.

Of course you cant step up without knowing that you are a winning player. Hence the 20k hand rule.

( I dont know if you interpreted the numbers the wrong way; when you have $500 you shouldnt just play exclusivly NL50 until you are broke. Its meant the other way around. You cant play NL50 with less than a $500 roll. Once you drop below 500 you should move down.)


at shads:
Of course you will reraise AJ sometimes because you have the best hand (on av).

Maybe I can tell a little story about what I mean. I used to play freerolls and $1 sitngos just about 8 months ago. regularly I mean. The daily $500 freeroll was especially funny. For me AJ or QJs were really good hands back then. I would raise and reraise all-in with these hands because they were worth it. people would call with even worse hands. It was at the $5 sitngos where I realized that hands like AT arent good enough to get all-in with preflop. But of course it cost me time and money to learn that. That is one of the reasons why I dont think micro limits are a good way to sharpen ones poker skills.

If you have read the book "NLHE theory and practice" by sklansky and ed, think about the chapter dealing with the perfect strategy. At a normal NL100 table the perfect pre defined strategy would gain maybe one third of the maximum that can possibly be earned. In contrast the strategy would maybe only win about one fifth of the possible max earn at the lower limits. Because the play at the lower limits is much more off the perfect play. Hence to play ideally you would need to "swap" a lot of mistakes. This very mistake swapping youll learn at the lower limits (but wont recognize as such) will lead you to bad play at higher limits. Thats the point I was trying to make with my AJ example. Maybe its clearer now.
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Old Apr 01, 2007, 11:51pm   #16
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Quote:
The thing is that playing over-bankrolled is highly -EV.

1. You win less at lower limits.
2. Your learning curve at the lower limit is increasing slower.
What about 3. you may not be good enough to beat the higher stakes game and need to hone your game at smaller stakes.

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At a normal NL100 table the perfect pre defined strategy would gain maybe one third of the maximum that can possibly be earned. In contrast the strategy would maybe only win about one fifth of the possible max earn at the lower limits.
Where did these numbers come from?

I would assume the best way to completely smash micro limits would entail using excellent hand reading skills and bet sizing to take full advantage of people overplaying weak top pair and second pair hands, and you need that to beat higher stakes games as well.
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Old Apr 02, 2007, 12:04am   #17
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reread pls frogboy.

I think it might be me who is very bad at all in phrasing the things correctly but that doesnt mean you cant be good reader.
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Old Apr 02, 2007, 8:46am   #18
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1 PTBB/100 at 5/10 is $20/100. 3 PTBB/100 at 2/4 is $24/100.
This is why you track your results and win rate. You may be a winning player at one level, but be a more profitable player at the level below.

You can then decide if your poker education is worth the loss of potential earnings by playing at higher levels.
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Old Apr 02, 2007, 7:33pm   #19
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Originally Posted by jimmytrick View Post
I have lost 4-5 buyins in the span of a couple of minutes to bad beats while multi-tabling. I assume that OP would agree that 10 buyins is not sufficient if you are playing 4-6 tables at a time.
I had a fun 5 minutes a week ago I don't want to go into.

BTW, I like the comment about how one's betting lines should define the opponent's holding.. except, of course, that's easier said than done sometimes since you have to bet in the first place to figure out your opponent's range of holdings.

Aren't platitudes fun though?
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Apr 03, 2007, 8:19pm   #20
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good posts...

ty for this good guide.

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