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Old Dec 27, 2007, 2:48am   #51
BubbleBoy
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I found something cool consideringthe AJ discussion
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man, I just completely disagree. I think most balanced, winning strategies, 200 bb deep in the big blind vs a very good and aggresive button raiser, are going to involve flat calling AJo much more often than reraising.
this is correct. the more you move your range to nuts;air the more often you're going to put yourself in not only easier decisions, but more +EV situations.

the fact of the matter is this, he's calling with an absurd amount of his range here 200 deep. and that which is too garbage to call- he'll probably four bet, sice he knows these are fantastic stacks to four bet. so, assuming that you are saying this 3-bet is for value- which i assume you are, as value here can be defined as a hand that is well ahead of his range andw here he can call for worse- what are you doing when he amkes it 1750? are you sticking it in? of course you can make plays for value and decide to still fold, but this opens you up to a whole can of worms you don't want to face.

aqdditionally, flatting here 'under reps your hand' somewhat, and makes you a ton of GREAT bluff catchers that will be way at the top of your range, and you will flop overs + bd fd and **** pretty often which will be good CR bluffing hands, or cold leading bluffing hands if that's what fits in well with your game plan.

lefort i think your statement would be better off written as "if you're afraid to reraise 75s here then you shouldn't be playing with cts" becuase that would be more true, in some respects, since that's the kind of hand that makes up your air range better. although to be honest, our nuts to air ratio here should be fairly even favoring the nuts over most given situations where it's better to have air (and clearly AJ CANNOT be implemented in our nuts range), since it's not great stack sizes to 3-bet light, and if you say "well he knows that it's not great stack szies to 3-bet light" then i think you are leveling yourself, but if you want to be firm in thinking that, just increase the amount you have air, and not hands with reverse implied odds.
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Old Jan 22, 2008, 2:42pm   #52
west
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So where can I learn to play a good LAG game? any links to a thorough guide would be much appreciated. Am currently playing 25NL shorthand, played about 30k hands in 10NL shorthand and moved up after building a decent bankroll. Am confident with my preflop play but need to improve my postflop play and figured learning a good LAG style would be a good way to do it.
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Old Jan 22, 2008, 5:10pm   #53
Arruda
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I think cardrunners are the expert on that laggy stuff, aren't they?
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 2:46pm   #54
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This is a fabulous topic and debate within. I like the concepts Bubble Boy laid before us regarding game fundamentals for each level. I would add that most of the famous pros say between 2-5% your bankroll is the maximum you should buy in for such as Clonie Gowen stated at Full Tilt poker (5%).
Im not sure you learn to play ABC poker and then the very next night you start owning the game playing an unfamiliar LAG style. I think with experience comes courage and reads along with confidence to play something outside your comfort zone and one hand at a time you will adopt the ability to play a different looser style. "The Book of Bluffs" is a must read for people who play TAG now and want to consider ways to loosen up. It will also help you to play in that 4th demensional thinking where you can at the flop put your opponent on a hand and then go ahead and give them just the correct odds to call based on THEIR holdings not your own.
Annie Duke and I spoke about this once on UltimateBet once and she told me Eric Seidel is a great person to watch to learn this skill or just understand it better. Since then I have watched Eric on Poker After Dark and took much humor in it when his opponents calculate the odds on his flop bet then look up and exclaim to him "HOW do you ALWAYS know"?!?!
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Old Feb 01, 2008, 3:55pm   #55
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Default YES, short-stacks have a lower variance than big stacks in NLH!!!

Reading this thread was the reason to registor, enabling me to post an answer here.


YES, short-stacks have a lower variance than big stacks in NLH!!!


Why? Think about what affeccts variance: It are mainly the differences between the single outcomes (eg 30BB win) minus the average of all outcomes (eg 10BB), squared.

This means that higher extreme values (eg. 70BB) greatly affect your variance.

As a shortstacked guy can only lose his small stack (or double/triple his small stack), the extremes are much much lower than if he had a huge stack.

Thus variance of short-stacked players is lower.
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Old Feb 01, 2008, 9:27pm   #56
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But in relation to what you stand to win by doubling up? The nominal profit/loss value might be but your actual std deviation figure won't be surely?
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Old Feb 01, 2008, 11:36pm   #57
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What I'm saying is that two players, both earning 10BB/100, playing identically, will have different std deviations if they always enter the table with different stack sizes (higher stack -> higher std deviation).

I agree that stack size has an effect on your win rate (BB/100). But this is another topic. A winning player will probalby have a higher win rate when entering a table with a large stack.
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Old Feb 02, 2008, 10:00am   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strider1973 View Post
What I'm saying is that two players, both earning 10BB/100, playing identically, will have different std deviations if they always enter the table with different stack sizes (higher stack -> higher std deviation).

I agree that stack size has an effect on your win rate (BB/100). But this is another topic. A winning player will probalby have a higher win rate when entering a table with a large stack.
I agree with the general idea, but the thing most people aren't thinking about is the vast difference in strategy when short stacking. For example, when you play deeped stack you can afford to play low suited connectors, and things that won't often hit a strong hand, but when they do will likely get paid off.

You can't do that with a short stack. You need to play statistcally favored hands preflop, and you'll be much more ready to get your stack in with tptk than otherwise. So while shoving will mean less variance, you'll shove more often with a short stack and you'll be pot committed more often.

Swings aren't necessarily created by winning and losing big pots. Variance has more to do with how many hands you must play before you get paid to break even or win. If you are heads up you better be winning 50% of the time or more given equal pot sizes. If you are playing a large stack with 89s or something to that effect, you'll win much less often, but more likely in a multiway pot that is worth more.

That said, I don't think that the simple fact that you have more to risk with a larger stack is enough to warrant a higher variance. There are too many other factors to take into consideration.

Last edited by kmay06; Feb 02, 2008 at 10:03am.
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Old Feb 04, 2008, 5:24am   #59
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Jumping on the year later bandwagon...

I love 10NL. Its one of my favorite limits, particularly when discussing poker with a newer player.
The great thing about 10 NL is that all the major flaws in poker are very present, and playing there is excellent practice for identifying and exploiting them.

Taking money from bad players as fast as possible is a very important skill. I agree it can give people bad habits, but only if the persons play is rooted in a misunderstanding of what is going on. If someone understands that the flaws of their opponents are what allow them to make a play, then they should be alright down the road as they realize the situation that made the play acceptable at 10NL no longer exists.
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Old Feb 07, 2008, 12:23pm   #60
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i should fold....just fold...definitely fold..................................DAMN IT
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