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Old Jul 03, 2007, 2:21am   #1
fraserbrown
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Default Dumbass saves me $100

Saturday night $1/$2NL. Dealt AA in late position and raise to $20, only caller is UTG+1. Flop comes A K J rainbow, UTG+1 checks, and I push $50 into the pot, UTG+1 flashes his cards to his buddy sitting beside him who is out of the hand and goes into the tank. After about 30 sec his buddy says "You have the nuts, just go all-in" and lo and behold UTG+1 pushes his last ~$150 into the pot. I muck my cards face up in the middle of the table and UTG+1 looks sick and shows his Q 10. Thank your dumbass friend for me, he saved me over a $100, if I hadnt heard that little statement I was going to call.

Two things:
1) Was using the info given out by his friend ethical?
2) Would pushing all-in with a set of Aces with this board be an alright move?

Last edited by fraserbrown; Jul 03, 2007 at 5:07am.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 2:42am   #2
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1) Yes, his friend is a dumbass!
2) I'm paying him the $100.............not "the nutz" until it can't be beat.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 2:58am   #3
angusg
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Not sure about the ethics but you have a 35% chance of winning the hand, you are getting about 3:1 odds, it's a clear call even if you know he has QT. And why couldn't his friend have been lying?
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 3:17am   #4
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1) lol
2) its probably not very good since you want to get called.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 4:18am   #5
KTC
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Dumbass!

1) Was using the info given out by his friend ethical?
He was being a dumbass. You're not cheating using any and all information your opponent or his/her dumbass friend provides willingly.

Quote:
UTG+1 flashes his cards to his buddy sitting beside him who is out of the hand
That's bad unless he's also going to be showing the rest of the table his cards afterwards if his buddy is in the game. Also, this is one of the classic tell reading situation. Hand shared in the middle of a hand => study the friend. Of course, in this case you didn't have to study very hard.

2) Would pushing all-in with a set of Aces with this board be an alright move?
I presume you're talking about calling here, otherwise no don't push the flop hoping he'd call.

Let me start by saying I've called a push in exactly such a situation before, AKQ flop with KK calling knowing 99.9% the opponent had TJ. In this case....
Asumming there were no other raise or limp beforehand as you haven't proivded the details, 20+20+3+50+150=243. You need to call 100. Hence you need to win about 29% of the time. The set is on about 35% win in this situation as been pointed out by angusg already. Mathematically, call. Also...

Quote:
why couldn't his friend have been lying?
EDIT: Changed conclusion based on now correct maths....

Last edited by KTC; Jul 03, 2007 at 6:15am.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 5:02am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTC View Post
Asumming there were no other raise or limp beforehand as you haven't proivded the details, 20+20+3+50+150=243. You need to call 100. Hence you need to win about 41% of the time. The set is on about 35% win in this situation as been pointed out by angusg already. Mathematically, fold. But....
Calling $100 to win $243 you only need to win >29% of the time, not >41%. The odds are actually 2.5-ish to 1 not 3:1 as I originally said but it's still mathematically a call.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 5:06am   #7
fraserbrown
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Yeah I was talking about calling here, not pushing allin after the action is checked to me, dealer made UTG+1 show his cards under the "show one, show all" rule. UTG+1 also smacked his friend in hte back of the head. I probably should have called in hindsight since I had about ~$350 in chips still.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 6:14am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angusg View Post
Calling $100 to win $243 you only need to win >29% of the time, not >41%.
Yeah, writing response at 5am probably wsn't the best idea. Should have put in a maths disclaimer like I was thinking about.

Quote:
The odds are actually 2.5-ish to 1 not 3:1 as I originally said but it's still mathematically a call.
PokerStove still says 35%. I was being special, but not that special.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 6:15am   #9
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This isn't a tournament, it doesn't matter how much you have left in your stack because you can reload if you lose the hand. In a cash game you should make decisions like this based purely on EV, and in this case a call is +EV because of the pot odds you are getting.

Edit: KTC: yes, by 2.5:1 odds I meant the pot odds being offered, which translates into needing to win the hand about 29% of the time. You are right, the actual percentage chance of winning the hand is 35%.

Last edited by angusg; Jul 03, 2007 at 6:18am.
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Old Jul 03, 2007, 6:17am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraserbrown View Post
I probably should have called in hindsight since I had about ~$350 in chips still.
It's not how much you have that matters, but the odds you're getting. i.e. how much you can win verse how much you're having to put in. You could have had $100000000 in front of you but you were only going to win $243, and do so with a call of $100.
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