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Old Sep 05, 2007, 11:27am   #1
Grailer
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Default 10 10 all in , called by 45

I might as well have had AA vs 45 for all it was worth , guess I was lucky he called me with just 45 since the board hit some big overcards. However I flopped an open end str8 draw , pretty good odds

But notice he flopped a flush draw . Wow I doubt I couldve got this donk to lay down a flush draw , so he wouldve paid to see turn and river and I still lose . It was an impossible hand to win basically.

The best move was all in pre flop - and yet the donk calls.


NL Texas Hold'em $3 USD Buy-in Trny: 35376216 Level: 3 Blinds(50/100) - Wednesday, September 05, 04:51:18 ET 2007
Table Speed #1330821 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: steg2005 ( 4,240 )
Seat 2: Vic_Mancini_ ( 1,980 )
Seat 3: vaterB ( 1,880 )
Seat 8: AlexNovgorod ( 1,570 )
Seat 10: stepan67 ( 2,460 )
Seat 6: Stena125 ( 2,550 )
Seat 4: Grai13r ( 2,050 )
Seat 7: SuperZnibb ( 1,560 )
Seat 9: Maxiace ( 1,710 )
Trny: 35376216 Level: 3
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Grai13r [ Ts Td ]
SuperZnibb calls [100]
AlexNovgorod folds
Maxiace folds
stepan67 folds
steg2005 folds
Vic_Mancini_ folds
vaterB folds
Grai13r is all-In [2,000]
Stena125 folds
SuperZnibb is all-In [1,460]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, Qc, Jd ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
steg2005: lolol
SuperZnibb shows [ 4c, 5c ]two pairs, Fives and Fours.
Grai13r shows [ Ts, Td ]a pair of Tens.
Grai13r wins 490 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of Tens.
SuperZnibb wins 3,220 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Fives and Fours.



Followed by TILT game

NL Texas Hold'em $3 USD Buy-in Trny: 35376216 Level: 4 Blinds(100/200) - Wednesday, September 05, 04:51:54 ET 2007
Table Speed #1330821 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: steg2005 ( 4,240 )
Seat 2: Vic_Mancini_ ( 1,980 )
Seat 3: vaterB ( 1,880 )
Seat 8: AlexNovgorod ( 1,570 )
Seat 10: stepan67 ( 2,460 )
Seat 6: Stena125 ( 2,450 )
Seat 4: Grai13r ( 490 )
Seat 7: SuperZnibb ( 3,220 )
Seat 9: Maxiace ( 1,710 )
Trny: 35376216 Level: 4
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Grai13r [ Qc 7c ]
Grai13r: dude
AlexNovgorod folds
Grai13r: this isnt play money
Maxiace folds
steg2005: what a joke
Maxiace: what adonkey
stepan67 folds
Grai13r: XXXXXg idiot
steg2005 folds
Grai13r: FUKKKKK
Vic_Mancini_ folds
vaterB folds
SuperZnibb: haha
Grai13r is all-In [490]
Stena125 folds
SuperZnibb calls [290]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 8c, 8h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
steg2005: happens though. There's always someone rubbish hitting the luck
SuperZnibb shows [ 5c, Ac ]two pairs, Eights and Fives.
Grai13r shows [ Qc, 7c ]two pairs, Eights and Sevens.
Grai13r wins 1,080 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Eights and Sevens.
Game #6299677072 starts.

Last edited by Grailer; Sep 05, 2007 at 11:32am.
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Old Sep 05, 2007, 3:30pm   #2
jmson23
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Standard line. Obviously you had two high cards/over pair so 45 must have two live cards. And it's suited.
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Old Sep 05, 2007, 8:30pm   #3
Iestyn75
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My question is 'did you want the call or not'? I'm not defending his play with 45s but I'm wondering whether the push with TT was +EV. I suspect not, since more often than not, a call in that situation is going to have you coin flip at best. You'll get a call from a lower pair when it's a short-stack or massive stack who limped in, but a call from someone with 45s is going to be rare.
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Old Sep 06, 2007, 12:01am   #4
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Yeah on a serious note you should not shove this. You are only getting called by a hand that beats you usually. Shoving 10's PF with no raises or anyone in the pot isn't the way to go.
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Old Sep 06, 2007, 12:58am   #5
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I dont really like the shove because you are so deep, but saying that if you shove that you wont be called by worse hands, is just totally false, as displayed by the villain in this hand. You're probably getting called by worst hands more often than not, if someone is limp calling this.
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Old Sep 06, 2007, 7:04am   #6
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well the reason for the shove was because I was late position

Its speed poker so I want to dbl up.

If he had AK AQ he would probably call which makes it almost coinflip in my favour slightly.

The shove also looks like Im trying to steal the blinds so he might just call anyway with something like 45 ..

Yes SO you can see my tactics worked well and I was almost beyond happy to see 45 ... that was until turn and river came .

In first position no way would I all in with 10 10 for obvious reasons.
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Old Sep 06, 2007, 1:42pm   #7
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I just don't see how this strategy can be profitable for SnG's. You say you want to take a coinflip for all of your chips. Why? Why not wait to get all in when you're more than just a SLIGHT favorite. I know that this guy called with a horrible hand but honestly I just don't see how we think that we'll get called enough times with two undercards instead of two overcards/overpair for this to be profitable. I'm just curious now as to what others think.
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Old Sep 06, 2007, 2:08pm   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailer View Post
The shove also looks like Im trying to steal the blinds so he might just call anyway with something like 45 ..
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Old Sep 07, 2007, 1:33pm   #9
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Hm, you have 20 BB, that's still the 3+xBB Phase for me. I would've raised 400 for 4BB (just laziness, at PRIMA it's just 1-Click to raise the double). Out to a Re-Raise

Scary flop, but also an OESD and bottom pair,
Checked to me: betting 500 would leave me with ~1K if he raises AI.
>-Min-Bet to me: without reads I'm out (too weak)

Turn would be ok, 500 would leave me with 5BB, Bet 500 or fold to >min-bet

River??

You are in Position, with an AI you lose that advantage. no need to get broke in lvl 3 with a med-pair.
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Old Sep 07, 2007, 3:15pm   #10
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Grailer says he shoved because he was in late position, whereas as far as I can tell, he was in the SB and worst position of all post-flop. TT is a tricky hand to play post flop and out of position (and as it turned out, the flop was horrid), so the shove from the SB looks to me all over to be the play of a novice with no post-flop skills. That’s observation, not criticism: I regularly do the same with JJ.

Most often, that shove is a semi-bluff designed to steal the blinds. My own view is that ordinarily a raise of 400-500 would be enough to get the rags to fold at this level; if he’d called that, I’d have been thinking another pair or a good Ace, and would have had to play the flop accordingly.

Grailer’s opening post complains that it was an impossible hand to win against someone who won’t lay down rags. Quite right – best hand always wins on the river. But it was not an impossible hand to survive, nor was it impossible to find out a little more about whether or not TT was strong before putting life on the line. No-one is questioning the weakness of the 45s player. But the weakness of Grailer’s play is that he made no effort to find out whether he was ahead, 50/50 to overcards or worse to an overpair. My only defence of the villain is based on this: the all-in screams ‘don’t call’, so with likely live cards, he’s done the opposite. A raise of 400 would, I think, have taken this down preflop.

The push was +EV? I doubt it very much.
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