THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Sep 27, 2007, 3:13am   #11
Gerrit2002
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,134
Reputation: 1211
Gerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud ofGerrit2002 has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mushroom View Post
Whatever you do you should play on a softer site than Pokerstars.
Doesnt matter on NL5 I guess. Maybe Stars is even better because players in the microlimits play a little bit more poker instead of donkaments so the learning curve their should be higher for a beginner. Profitable on this level are all rooms nearlly the same in my eyes...
Gerrit2002 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Sep 27, 2007, 3:35am   #12
Seb47
Professional
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, france
Posts: 1,395
Reputation: 941
Seb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via MSN to Seb47
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

yeah LM is right game selection is the key at NL5.
Seb47 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 6:26am   #13
Lord Mushroom
The Dark Knight
 
Lord Mushroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,568
Reputation: 42
Lord Mushroom is on a distinguished road
Default

I keep hearing that microlimits are the same no matter where you play, but I simply can´t believe it. I need a logical reason why it is so. At non-microlimits everybody agrees there are major differences in softness. So if both of these statements are true, there has to be a huge jump in toughness going from the last of the microlimits to the first of the low limits (say NL10 to NL25) on a tough site, but no one seems to think that.

My conclusion is that good players perceive microlimits at all sites as equal because they know the competition on microlimits is easy at all sites, but they fail to make the distinction between soft and very soft.
__________________
(00:42-03:27)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TibA0sQQZw8

The bot has spoken.
Lord Mushroom est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 7:24am   #14
Seb47
Professional
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, france
Posts: 1,395
Reputation: 941
Seb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to beholdSeb47 is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via MSN to Seb47
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Reason is that people who play NL2 dont give a fuck about rakeback or bonuses or anything so there is no reason the competition is tougher at one site or another.
Seb47 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 8:15am   #15
Lord Mushroom
The Dark Knight
 
Lord Mushroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,568
Reputation: 42
Lord Mushroom is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb47 View Post
Reason is that people who play NL2 dont give a fuck about rakeback or bonuses or anything
Some do, and to a larger degree at NL10. And microlimits are not immune to other factors which dictate softness such as:

1) Difficulties depositing if you are American, which results in fish leaving and sharks remaining.
2) The nature of the commercials for the sites. Some commercials are attractive to idiots (Party Poker), some to smarter people (Full Tilt Poker).
3) Some sites let you multi-table 25 tables, some limit you to a single one.

Again, I assume you don´t think there is a huge leap from NL10 to NL25 on Pokerstars, so there is a flaw in your reasoning.
__________________
(00:42-03:27)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TibA0sQQZw8

The bot has spoken.
Lord Mushroom est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 9:08am   #16
Emain2
Doyle Look-alike
 
Emain2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 289
Reputation: 9
Emain2 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mushroom View Post
My conclusion is that good players perceive microlimits at all sites as equal because they know the competition on microlimits is easy at all sites, but they fail to make the distinction between soft and very soft.
I think this is actually the case from what I have experienced. There may well be sites where only 2 or 3 people at the table feel the urge to lose their stack with TPTK on a co-ordinated board, where as at others you may get up to say 5 of them at any one time on a table will be willing to do so. Any good player should be able to make healthy returns at micro limit tables almost anywhere (barring variance) , it is just that at some places you may have more opportunities per session to rack up the profits.

Good players with a roll will move on past these feeder levels and progress up the ladders and when looking back they will know how to crush these games but maybe forget that there were edges they could find even here if they ever had to drop back down.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
You've played too much limit already. You're beyond salvation. We can't save everyone.
Emain2 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 9:34am   #17
Jokeslayer
Wolfgame World Champion
 
Jokeslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,644
Reputation: 1280
Jokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud ofJokeslayer has much to be proud of
Default

There are always so many micro tables, it probably doesn't matter where you play as long as you can spot the fish
Jokeslayer est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 1:14pm   #18
Omnificent
Flop Artist
 
Omnificent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kanada ..eh..
Posts: 31
Reputation: 10
Omnificent is on a distinguished road
Default

I clearly understand the need to find the "fish"...however I've also read somewhere here to drop that term from my vocabulary ... regardless..meh

What I'm uncertain of is, if my bankroll is sufficient to deal with variance and I go ahead with the mentality of learning the game at all levels, why on earth would I want to play only piss pour players?? I suppose some feel that the crushing of very weak individuals is an advantage to the learning curve but at the same time isn't this a detriment to playing more skilled players in the future??

Sure, if I run into a more skilled player at the micro levels of PS I may loose a round or two for the day, but I believe that if I take notes on my mistakes during those rounds I should be a better player a little quicker then perhaps always smoking the competition??

Thoughts?
Omnificent est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 1:44pm   #19
cobalt
Professional
 
cobalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,459
Reputation: 153
cobalt has a spectacular aura aboutcobalt has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to cobalt Send a message via Skype™ to cobalt
Default

You're going to want to make an effort on getting into hands with players that play poorly in at least one respect (if you don't like the term "fish" -- incidentally, I think people who disparage the term are more focused on the condescending attitude than the applicability of it). Good players aren't good money, and extraction of money is the point of the game.

But, as you work up the levels, you're going to encounter good players (I mean good for the level, typically, though sometimes you run into a guy who really knows how to play and is in the midst of a BR rebuilding or something), and you're going to get into hands with them. It's usually a learning exercise, and no, you don't always lose even if you are just beginning.

Either way, you improve. If you don't adjust when moving up, there is a significant chance that you will be forced down to your old level quickly. And you're never playing only piss poor players (and this is unfortunate). You should just make an effort to play them whenever possible.

I don't think anybody feels that this inhibits the growth process very much. There are almost two games going: One, where you try to feed on the fish. And another when you get involved with a competent player, and you know that they know that you know, and etc. Unsurprisingly, these games aren't always played the same way.
cobalt est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27, 2007, 2:49pm   #20
Lord Mushroom
The Dark Knight
 
Lord Mushroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,568
Reputation: 42
Lord Mushroom is on a distinguished road
Default

You learn faster playing with good players, but if you try to find soft tables you will find that you can play at higher levels than otherwise and you will end up playing against the same competition but at higher stakes instead. By game-selecting, your winrate in big blinds (or ROI if you play tournaments) will be the same, but as you are playing at higher levels you will make more money.

The only downside to game-selecting is that it takes longer time to find a game. Time which could have been spent playing. Thus you learn slower if you game-select. The optimal is probably to game-select a little, like avoiding shark-infested tables, and not so much that you are only willing to play über-soft tables.

As for bankroll-strategy, the following is a good rule of thumb:
NL-cash: Drop down if you have less than 2000 big blinds.
FL-cash: Drop down if you have less than 600 big blinds.
STTs: Drop down if you have less than 30 buy-ins.
MTTs: Drop down if you have less than 100 buy-ins.
__________________
(00:42-03:27)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TibA0sQQZw8

The bot has spoken.

Last edited by Lord Mushroom; Sep 27, 2007 at 2:57pm.
Lord Mushroom est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 4:32am. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.