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Old Jan 06, 2008, 4:00pm   #101
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Just to clarify. I never said that we should teach other theories besides Evolution.

By not teaching it I meant it shouldn't be a mandatory for all students. If a student wants to go into a biology or scienece field than it can be taught in that course, but its not important for the vast majority of jobs and it doesn't improve skill sets and prepare students for life and should only be optional.

Schools biggest goal should be to preprare students for real life and being productive members of society and giving them the tools to do well in real life jobs. Evolution clearly doens't fit into either category. It is a piece of information that is some use to a few students and therefore should only be taught for those students who are interested in that field. There is a ton of info that could be taught that doens't improve skills and isn't very useful for most jobs and those should be optional for students who are interested in those fields. Can't teach everyone everything.
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Old Jan 06, 2008, 5:06pm   #102
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I missed the debates last night but luckily CNN will rebroadcast tonight.

My general feeling is that Obama essentially shoved all in with his "you have made history" Iowa victory speech. This may backfire on him as it looks like a coin flip to me and nobody is folding. If things start to sour on him he is stuck seeing all five cards.

Obama 42%
Hillary 41.3%
Edwards 16.7%

Its not over.
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Old Jan 06, 2008, 5:45pm   #103
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I think Obama has QQ, Clinton has AQ and Edwards has QJ hearts. Richardson has JJ but someone folded the other jack.

Edwards is in trouble, needs to catch two hearts on the flop (Nevada + South Carolina?) and the door card was a diamond (Iowa - close to the right suit, but not quite) to take him to the river (get enough money to compete on Feb 5)

Obama's ahead right now, but he can't afford to have an ace spike the board (A major gaffe, leading to Hillary winning New Hampshire , South Carolina and Florida). If this happens, he's all but drawing dead, if he's lucky he might get a split pot (a brokered convention where no one candidate has enough delegates to win the nomination or maybe a VP slot on her ticket)

Hillary got her money in behind (in Iowa), but she's got an overcard (the Clinton name and money) and if she spikes an ace on the flop (New Hampshire) it'll almost certainly hold, all the way to the river (Feb 5) and the showdown (the convention)

Richardson meanwhile has no hand and no outs. He has pocket jacks, a good starting hand (a governor and ex cabinet minster) but he ran into a monster (the strongest democratic field in recent history)... and someone else already folded the other jack preflop.

Everybody else has already folded. Biden's saving his chips for Secretary of State and Dodd had 7 2 offsuit. Kucinich also had 7 2 offsuit, but he decided to put half of his chips in preflop and then fold when he told everyone he had seen a UFO at the debate.

Meanwhile, on the Republican side, McCain has AK, always a good hand to go in on, but he needs to hit on the flop (New Hampshire) or the turn (Feb 5) or river (consensus candidate at the convention) to have a chance at showdown. Huckabee has pocket threes and the door card (Iowa) was a deuce, he needs the rest of the board to stay low (hold the South) if he's going to win. Giuliani had nine jack (911), but he's running on scared money (911) and he thought the terrorists might have pocket aces, so he had to fold before the flop (Iowa). Fred Thompson was lazy and the dealer accidentally mucked his cards before he could look at them. Mitt Romney had ace four; it looked good at first, he thought he was a sure thing, but then he realised he didn't have the nuts but since he was pot committed, he decided to run with it and hope for a miracle four to hit (winning a state, any state, so that people will take him seriously). Ron Paul has 32 offsuit; Huckabee has his threes and will probably spike a set on the flop, but he can use his deep stack ($$$$) to float all the way to the river and hope to catch three running deuces for quads. I hope he doesn't though, 'cos skeptix would take my money if he did.

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Old Jan 07, 2008, 8:52am   #104
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Originally Posted by KS_Perfection View Post
Just to clarify. I never said that we should teach other theories besides Evolution.

By not teaching it I meant it shouldn't be a mandatory for all students. If a student wants to go into a biology or scienece field than it can be taught in that course, but its not important for the vast majority of jobs and it doesn't improve skill sets and prepare students for life and should only be optional.

Schools biggest goal should be to preprare students for real life and being productive members of society and giving them the tools to do well in real life jobs. Evolution clearly doens't fit into either category. It is a piece of information that is some use to a few students and therefore should only be taught for those students who are interested in that field. There is a ton of info that could be taught that doens't improve skills and isn't very useful for most jobs and those should be optional for students who are interested in those fields. Can't teach everyone everything.
Following this argument we should never teach music, art, poetry, sport or anything else that isn't directly job / skills related. All education should be vocational and we should raise our children not to be broadly intelligent, well-rounded individuals but only to be productive workers. Unfortunately unless you can predict what each child will go on to be you have no idea whether music, art, poetry or sport will actually end up being their vocation.

I agree that some form of selection / streaming should take place at critical milestones in education so that some pursue more academic routes and others more vocational ones, but I really think it's important that kids have access to a wide range of learning in their lives. And I think it's crucial that we teach our kids evolution, if only to try and scrub out the ridiculous idea that the world was created in 7 days 4,500 years ago!
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 3:10pm   #105
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I think some music, art, geography and history should be taught. Science definitly should, but evolution has no usefulness and almost all other science stuff has a little. Learning about how the sun works, global warming, how cells work, gravity, this stuff and lots of other science is useful to know. Evolution, I just don't see the point.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 3:47pm   #106
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Originally Posted by KS_Perfection View Post
I think some music, art, geography and history should be taught. Science definitly should, but evolution has no usefulness and almost all other science stuff has a little. Learning about how the sun works, global warming, how cells work, gravity, this stuff and lots of other science is useful to know. Evolution, I just don't see the point.
It kinda sounds like you just don't like Evolution. It's a vital part of biology, history, anthropology, archaeology, etc. To question it's "validity" in being taught sounds silly to me. It's a vital building block of our world, why would you not want to teach children about it?
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 6:31pm   #107
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Its really moot as the President doesn't set classroom curriculum. Nothing happened to it in Arkansas under Huckabee, nothing will happen to it regardless of president.

On a fun note, St. Anselm College (site of the debates) is my Alma Mater. Our time to shine once every 4 years!
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 7:50pm   #108
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Its really moot as the President doesn't set classroom curriculum. Nothing happened to it in Arkansas under Huckabee, nothing will happen to it regardless of president.

On a fun note, St. Anselm College (site of the debates) is my Alma Mater. Our time to shine once every 4 years!
There is the matter of Supreme Court justices.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 9:30pm   #109
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IME (obviously could be completely different elsewhere) evolution is not really "taught" as a way that life began or whatever. We know for a FACT that things evolve. Those that want to deny that it can happen on a large scale (ie bacteria ----> humans) claim to believe in microevolution which is the evolution within a species. You probably know this but from your posts it didn't sound like it. Basically what I'm saying is that AFAIK there is no conflict and people are still free to train their kids to believe whatever they want them to believe.
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Old Jan 07, 2008, 10:57pm   #110
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New predictions for the race:

Clinton drops the Obomb after she loses New Hampshire (which will frustrate the Republicans no end since they already have ads in the can). I make this at about 45% probability.

The Republicans fail to choose a nominee and it goes the convention. Great televison. Probability 40%.
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