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Old Oct 19, 2007, 9:16am   #11
ktiger
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I'd think about folding in a Multiway-Pot. But heads-Up no way. You are behind AA, but in front of AK, QQ and AQ. And your reads have to be VERY precise to set him on AA...
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 9:52am   #12
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KK is unlikely, but also possible.

It's a 5$ Tourney, so I would put him on JJ+,AK. In this Limit people often overplay their big Pairs. His aggressive play in this early stage of the tourney doesn't fit to the theory that he must have AA here. Let's put him on AA/QQ -> Call.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 11:24am   #13
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Another vote to call this one. If he's got AA, then good for him, but I don't think that there is anyway of distinguishing that from JJ, QQ, the other KK or AK.

Slight edit: thinking about it, it's as likely that he's put you on a AKs and he's willing to gamble with any pair.

Last edited by Iestyn75; Oct 19, 2007 at 11:26am.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 1:12pm   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktiger View Post
I'd think about folding in a Multiway-Pot.
Um why? I love KK in multiway pots! You're still only worried about one hand, obviously there is a higher chance someone has that hand, but there's also a much better reward-to-risk ratio, 20% of the time you'll hit a set anyway, and often you'll be up against say AK and AQ so your opponents are holding each other's outs.

I agree with acehole, don't fold KK preflop in tourneys ever. Maybe if you're playing very deepstacked tourneys but in a 4.40/180, no way.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 1:20pm   #15
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Originally Posted by KevinM11 View Post
I think though that I would have to call this while having a slightly pained wincing look on my face.
This is exactly what I did expecting him to turn over AA, which he did. I thought he should have AA in this situation but since it was early in the MTT and I was hoping he was being hyper-aggressive so I called.

I just felt weird making that call when I knew I should have been way behind.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 1:26pm   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angusg View Post
Um why? I love KK in multiway pots! You're still only worried about one hand, obviously there is a higher chance someone has that hand, but there's also a much better reward-to-risk ratio, 20% of the time you'll hit a set anyway, and often you'll be up against say AK and AQ so your opponents are holding each other's outs.

I agree with acehole, don't fold KK preflop in tourneys ever. Maybe if you're playing very deepstacked tourneys but in a 4.40/180, no way.
With KK you just have top pair. And i hate busting out early with my TP against J9o. And with more ppl in the hand, the value of (big) PPs degrades. But as stated in another tournament post, sometimes i'm too weak ;) And I wouldn't fold every time, just think about folding...
@Blappo: That's resultoriented thinking. What if he had turned over AKs or QQ? You would have screamed "Gotcha!"

Last edited by ktiger; Oct 19, 2007 at 1:31pm.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 2:55pm   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktiger View Post
With KK you just have top pair. And i hate busting out early with my TP against J9o. And with more ppl in the hand, the value of (big) PPs degrades. But as stated in another tournament post, sometimes i'm too weak ;) And I wouldn't fold every time, just think about folding...
That way of thinking is indeed too weak, and by that logic if there are several people all in in front of you you should fold AA as well! Preflop with KK you have a big edge over every hand except one. That's all that should matter. If you bust out you bust out, you should never pass up an edge that significant in a shallow-stacked tournament, and if you're tempted to you should drop a buy-in level. Look at AoE's example. The greater chance of getting sucked out on is more than made up for by the greater rewards of winning the hand which most of the time you still will.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 5:13pm   #18
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If someone wants to get all their chips in the middle pf when I have kings, I will let them. The couple of times you run into AA is going to be offset ten fold the times you run into AK,AQ, or a lower pocket pair.
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 5:35pm   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktiger View Post
@Blappo: That's resultoriented thinking.
What was results oriented? My train of thought before & after I made the call was that I "should" be behind but I should call anyway since he might have a wide pushing range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktiger View Post
What if he had turned over AKs or QQ? You would have screamed "Gotcha!"
That is exactly why I made the call, but I would have said "What a donk".
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Old Oct 19, 2007, 7:08pm   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angusg View Post
I agree with acehole, don't fold KK preflop in tourneys ever.
Not true. What if you are at the end of a tournament with a very small stack and the next two small stacks go all-in and are called by a bigger stack and the chip leader? You have 7th place locked up but now are looking like you might take 5th. Then you look at your hand and see KK, or even AA for that matter. A fold is +EV in this instance, as busting out guarantees a 7th place finish, while folding means a good chance at a much bigger payday.
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