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Old Dec 28, 2007, 4:34pm   #1
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Default NL 5CD Live Shorthanded Shortstack Question... Yes, Really!

Okay, this is a bit weird but I recently played in a 5CD live tournament with a few of my dad's friends (25-ish in the field)

They're all drunk and weak-ish but competent players, but so am I at this particular game. They would probably be breakeven at .25/.5 online (although obviously they play higher stakes live since they're wealthy businessmen etc and a pure goldmine for me when they play holdem)

Now we've hit the final table and we're down to 5 handed from 6. These guys play with an ante and a single blind which is two antes. I know. Whatever... it's still kind of poker-ish and they suck at it, so I play when I can.

In any case....

The situation (the first one, there are two of them)

I'm on the button.

I'm down to 24/12 blinds antes in my stack, although the average is only about 32 antes due to their horrible structure. Chipleader has about 50-60 antes or 25-30 blinds.

Chipleader is very loose predraw and likes to play every hand, but plays a standard game after the draw.

Chipleader makes it 2 BB from UTG (average raise is 2-3), two players call, one folds.

I raise to 6BB with jack high and chipleader calls, other two players fold. He buys three, so I stand pat as intended and move in for my last 6BB.

Is this play +EV in my situation without any further reads? Is this viable in regular five card draw? Does anyone even play 5CD NL for money online?

Second play

I have a about 12BB stack with similar blinds. Still 5 handed. Same loose chipleader makes it 3BB. I look down at QQTTx. I put his range at about JJxxx to a royal flush. I have position on him again. Is it correct to move in preflop or flatcall and see how many he draws then act accordingly after he bets? I moved in and ran into a made full house, so i'm being results orientated, but is my move +EV or -EV at the final table of a tournament (assuming payouts don't matter, i'm narrowly short stacked with about half the average and my only goal is to win the tournament)

I'm a bad 5CD player and i'm curious to know if anyone here is good at the game...? Obviously, I clean up against bad players live but it would be interesting to try playing it online briefly and see how I go...

Oh and to finish off the thread on a poker stories note... i'd like to share a hand I played in the cash game afterwards.

$2 ante, $4BB, no SB, 6 handed 5CD. $20 cap on betting, $30 cap on raising. My two main opponents are drunk and spewy. We're all deep enough to cover any bets. Villain 2 has been showing down a single pair post draw in $100+ pots.

I'm UTG with Ac 6c 3c 7c Kh - I call, everyone else calls, BB checks.

Pot size: $24

I draw one. I receive 8c to complete my flush. Two villains who matter draw three each.

BB checks
I check
Villain 1 bets $20
Villain 2 raises $20 to $40
Villain 3 folds
Villain 4 folds
BB folds
I raise $30 to $70
Villain 1 folds (folds three of a kind, he tells me later)
Villain 2 raises $20 (weird, I know, you can do that there apparently) to $90
I raise $30 to $120
Villain 2 raises $30 to $150
I call...

Pot size: $344 from memory

I show my flush, expecting to see him with three aces. If he filled up, so be it, i'm ahead of his range.

Villain 2 shows Ah As 2d Js Qh

I ask him what he thinks he was beating, he tells me "I thought you might be bluffing and I didn't want to get bluffed by a kid (i'm 22)"

Apparently, 5bet bluffing missed draws is "in my range".

I should have taken him for $1000, lol...

I love live poker.

But seriously, I have questions. Scroll up.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 6:44pm   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Okay, this is a bit weird but I recently played in a 5CD live tournament with a few of my dad's friends (25-ish in the field)

They're all drunk and weak-ish but competent players, but so am I at this particular game. They would probably be breakeven at .25/.5 online (although obviously they play higher stakes live since they're wealthy businessmen etc and a pure goldmine for me when they play holdem)

Now we've hit the final table and we're down to 5 handed from 6. These guys play with an ante and a single blind which is two antes. I know. Whatever... it's still kind of poker-ish and they suck at it, so I play when I can.

In any case....

The situation (the first one, there are two of them)

I'm on the button.

I'm down to 24/12 blinds antes in my stack, although the average is only about 32 antes due to their horrible structure. Chipleader has about 50-60 antes or 25-30 blinds.

Chipleader is very loose predraw and likes to play every hand, but plays a standard game after the draw.

Chipleader makes it 2 BB from UTG (average raise is 2-3), two players call, one folds.

I raise to 6BB with jack high and chipleader calls, other two players fold. He buys three, so I stand pat as intended and move in for my last 6BB.

Is this play +EV in my situation without any further reads? Is this viable in regular five card draw? Does anyone even play 5CD NL for money online?
With the expertise of a donkey made of wool, or something (see avatar), after playing one single 5CD freeroll on Stars, I'd say that you should have discarded one card, but otherwise the play was fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Second play

I have a about 12BB stack with similar blinds. Still 5 handed. Same loose chipleader makes it 3BB. I look down at QQTTx. I put his range at about JJxxx to a royal flush.

Ehh...wtf...ok...I can't help you here...
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 9:09pm   #3
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i've played some 5cd, hustlr used to play it as i recall, maybe he will grace us with his presence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
I raise to 6BB with jack high and chipleader calls, other two players fold. He buys three, so I stand pat as intended and move in for my last 6BB.
i can't imagine this play is +EV. you're going to get looked up by anything they think has vacuum showdown value. as you describe them, these guys are mugs, no creative plays, just max out your value spots. it's probably only about 50/50 whether anyone in that field even noticed you rapped. just remember to announce "royal fisbin" when you turn your hand over.

there is probably a very narrow window of opportunity to try this move at some level though, you need opponents sophisticated enough to realise that you should have 2 pair beat, but also not sophisticated enough to see that this is a bluff way more than the very small percentage they need to call with a pair of tens.

you're laying great odds here, just to reemphasise that point. if you really had a monster wouldn't you either (i) commit them predraw or (ii) limp in, let them draw and then make a big bet? i think the second line works better for a bluff.

Quote:
Second play
fucking hell you got away with that? or did someone make a bluffcall with number 1?

Quote:
I have a about 12BB stack with similar blinds. Still 5 handed. Same loose chipleader makes it 3BB. I look down at QQTTx. I put his range at about JJxxx to a royal flush. I have position on him again. Is it correct to move in preflop or flatcall and see how many he draws then act accordingly after he bets? I moved in and ran into a made full house, so i'm being results orientated, but is my move +EV or -EV at the final table of a tournament (assuming payouts don't matter, i'm narrowly short stacked with about half the average and my only goal is to win the tournament)
against this guy i think your main concern is to get all the money in the middle against as much of his range as possible. i might just bump him another 4BB.

that's a point, i hope you showed the bluff. since you're almost never going to be bluffing in this kind of game, showing a bluff has great value.

Quote:
I'm a bad 5CD player and i'm curious to know if anyone here is good at the game...?
poker is poker.

i much prefer playing it live than online, for me its a game of reads, and there is much more opportunity for opponents to give tells in 5cd than there is in pretty much any other form of poker.

Quote:
I ask him what he thinks he was beating, he tells me "I thought you might be bluffing and I didn't want to get bluffed by a kid (i'm 22)"
i'm not remotely surprised that you get action like this. enjoy it while it lasts.

Kc
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 9:13pm   #4
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Originally Posted by GoldfishUltraDeluxe View Post
With the expertise of a donkey made of wool, or something (see avatar), after playing one single 5CD freeroll on Stars, I'd say that you should have discarded one card, but otherwise the play was fine.
if he draws one its really easy to put him on a busted draw and make a percentage call against him obnoxiously light. drawing definitely hurts his chances of getting through his opponents.

Kc
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 12:40pm   #5
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I just noticed this was a three year bump. Well done Goldfish!

That said, the first hand against those monkeys in a vacuum, I'd say overall you come out behind. I find the move more profitable with a low 3 of a kind or a high two pair.

This chart may help for the other hand. Probably not, but maybe. Anyway when I play 5CD, it's usually cash.

http://www.5-card-poker.com/five-car...babilities.php

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Old Apr 21, 2010, 3:00pm   #6
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I just noticed this was a three year bump. Well done Goldfish!
so it is. you actually look at the dates on shit? why?

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Old Apr 22, 2010, 2:40am   #7
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so it is. you actually look at the dates on shit? why?

Kc
For whatever reason if I visit this forum, whether or not I read all of the threads, the next time I visit, all of the posts that were new the first time are marked as read. So I read the dates so I know where I'm at.

It's probably some dumb setting I never bothered to look at.

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Old Apr 22, 2010, 2:29pm   #8
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Wow this is an old thread.
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 5:32pm   #9
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I just noticed this was a three year bump. Well done Goldfish!
Well, after playing that 5CD freeroll on Stars (my first 5CD tournament ever), finishing 144th place out of 6000 players, I figured there must have been some moments when I did not do everything wrong. Therefore, I started to look for 5CD threads in the forum to find some hints and advice to improve to reach the money.

When I found this thread, I thought I could just as well reply with some "advice", as it had no really serious content and no replies.
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