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Old Feb 25, 2008, 1:38pm   #21
Loder89
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"Just keep on playing weak tight and giving up every time you miss a flop. Really strong poker there."

Well if you always call potsized bets on missed flops then you probably are losing money...
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 3:02pm   #22
eric melvin rules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loder89 View Post
"Just keep on playing weak tight and giving up every time you miss a flop. Really strong poker there."

Well if you always call potsized bets on missed flops then you probably are losing money...
Reading comprehension FTW...
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 3:43pm   #23
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Gotta agree with poke on this one. I think these two are a contradiction:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric melvin rules View Post
Just keep on playing weak tight and giving up every time you miss a flop. Really strong poker there. You're a joke.
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Originally Posted by eric melvin rules View Post
Almost nobody ever donks out a PSB with a strong hand on this flop.
I don't understand, so if you were in EP with AA you would check here? If so what would you do if faced with a pot sized late position bet?

Eric I dunno how good ya are but I remember playing poke in a POY HU when I first joined, you'd have a challenge on your hands. If it happens though, post up time and date.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 4:52pm   #24
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Originally Posted by AceSweaty View Post
I don't understand, so if you were in EP with AA you would check here? If so what would you do if faced with a pot sized late position bet?
I doubt I would've flatted with AA from the BB anyway so this is fairly moot -- but if I had I would not be donking out into the PF raiser on a board that missed both our ranges.

I'm not really sure what you mean about facing a PSB from late position or how it would apply to the hand in question.

Put yourself in the villain's spot -- if you flop an overpair are you going to donk out and usually fold worse hands or are you going to check to the PF raiser and let him make a c-bet? If he flopped a monster he is not donking out with a PSB.

This guy's line is super weak (talking about on the flop), so I'm raising him with my entire range.

I've been reading G6A's posts for over a year -- I don't have much respect for him as a player, and his attitude is just pathetic. I'd gladly play him HU any time.

(edited for clarity)

Last edited by eric melvin rules; Feb 25, 2008 at 4:56pm.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 5:37pm   #25
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AA -

Raise flop with AA. If he's bad, call an all-in. If he's decent, fold (I probably wouldn't fold though if I were actually playing).

If raise flop with AA and Villain calls, then shove any safe turn.

I think that's all.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 5:50pm   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KHSPoker21 View Post
AA -

Raise flop with AA. If he's bad, call an all-in. If he's decent, fold (I probably wouldn't fold though if I were actually playing).

If raise flop with AA and Villain calls, then shove any safe turn.

I think that's all.
I don't like that line... I am comitting myself on a really ugly board and he is very likely to move in if I raise or fold any weaker hand but if I were him I would shove with any hand that I bet the pot with... (he might even move in with an overpair lower than mine) I include the big draws here aswell and if I follow your line to fold my hand at that point I just made a very -EV raise. Though on a safe turn I can just jam the Pot.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 6:06pm   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric melvin rules View Post

Put yourself in the villain's spot -- if you flop an overpair are you going to donk out and usually fold worse hands or are you going to check to the PF raiser and let him make a c-bet? If he flopped a monster he is not donking out with a PSB.
This is where i disagree, with a monster on that board he is very likely to bet at it. A set, very often yes. A straight, very often with the flush draw out there. A flush draw too. He's still gonna want to build a pot and would manage it successfully versus your assumption that he holds nothing.

This is why a flop bet with the AA is mandatory because by checking we are still clueless. KHS hit the nail on the head:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KHSPoker21
AA -

Raise flop with AA. If he's bad, call an all-in. If he's decent, fold (I probably wouldn't fold though if I were actually playing).

If raise flop with AA and Villain calls, then shove any safe turn.

I think that's all.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 6:57pm   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loder89 View Post
I don't like that line... I am comitting myself on a really ugly board and he is very likely to move in if I raise or fold any weaker hand but if I were him I would shove with any hand that I bet the pot with... (he might even move in with an overpair lower than mine) I include the big draws here aswell and if I follow your line to fold my hand at that point I just made a very -EV raise. Though on a safe turn I can just jam the Pot.
If he's bad, it doesn't matter.

If he's decent, then a donk bet has two lines:

1) I have a monster, let's get it in

2) You missed, haha, can't call.

If he calls, it's most likely the draw.

Don't apply your reason to his play.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 7:26pm   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceSweaty View Post
This is why a flop bet with the AA is mandatory because by checking we are still clueless.
When did I suggest that you check behind with AA? In my very first post I said "I raise all day on the flop in the first hand"... Next post, "I raise here with air, so I'll do it with a hand as well" (paraphrased)... My next post is talking about raising with AA as well as air... My next two posts are not addressing what I'd do with AA at all... My next post I say "I'm raising with my entire range on this flop" (AA being one of the hands that I'd raise UTG obviously)...

This is $25nl... People are almost never donking out with a big hand on that flop. This is a draw, weak pair, or air way more than it's anything close to 2 pair or better. If you're a good player and you flop a set on this board why are you donking out for pot? Are you just praying that they'll have an overpair and wont fold? This flop misses most people's UTG raising range by a mile -- even a drooler can understand that, which is why they are more likely to donk out with crap than with a big hand.... hence my raise.
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 9:12pm   #30
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I definitely understand you point melvin and I think you might be right. The problem I have is that a raise will scare weaker hands away but he might get it in with FDs or an OPESD... A check might induce a second barrel by the villain on the turn and right there he just can't move in with Drawws profitable anymore...
The main reason I didn't raise the flop was that I had no clue what to do if he moved in or reraises once more.
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