THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum

Go Back   PokerTips.org Forums > Strategy > Limit Hold'em and Miscellaneous Strategy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mar 02, 2008, 3:40pm   #1
Boilermaker
Get off my lawn
 
Boilermaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: damning whippersnappers
Posts: 4,599
Reputation: 2426
Boilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Raising the second nuts on the river

Interesting hand that happened last night at a live 4/8 FL game.

Hero is BB with KK. Villian in MP raises. Hero re-raises. Villian calls. There are two other players along for the flop.

Flop: KJ6 (suits unimportant).

Hero bets, Villian raises, Hero re-raises. Villian caps. Hero calls. The other limpers fold along the way here so future betting rounds have no cap.

Turn: 7

Hero bets, Villian raises, Here re-raises, Villian re-raises, Hero re-raises, Villian re-raises, Hero re-raises, Villian calls. (7 bets)

River: 6

Hero bets, Villian raises, Hero re-raises, Villian re-raises, Hero calls.

I put him on JJ or 66 at the flop. He seemed to finally realize I was ahead when we went 7 bets on the turn and he perked up when the 6 hit the river.

Villian is normally a horrific calling station and loose (he saw a flop an orbit earlier with 46o with the betting capped preflop having to call 3 of the bets cold). I haven't seen him re-raise like this before.

How many bets deep do you go on this river with the second nuts? There are 33 BB in the pot and the villian has about 7 more BB in his stack (I cover him). I feel like I should have gone 1 or 2 more bets, but my read was that he liked the 6 and I couldn't figure out how to balance this with the fact that he is a bad player.
Boilermaker est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Mar 02, 2008, 3:59pm   #2
BubbleBoy
BubbleBoy
 
BubbleBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BubbleBoy
Posts: 11,484
Reputation: 28914
BubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
There are 33 BB in the pot and the villian has about 7 more BB in his stack (I cover him). .
Not even remotely close.

He just loves the 6 because his trips improved to a boat.
__________________

BubbleBoy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2008, 4:04pm   #3
Boilermaker
Get off my lawn
 
Boilermaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: damning whippersnappers
Posts: 4,599
Reputation: 2426
Boilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleBoy View Post
Not even remotely close.

He just loves the 6 because his trips improved to a boat.
Are you implying you would keep re-raising up to the full 11 times? Surely his 8th re-raise (or whatever) is going to tell you he has 66.
Boilermaker est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2008, 4:05pm   #4
ssta
Doyle Look-alike
 
ssta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 290
Reputation: 103
ssta will become famous soon enoughssta will become famous soon enough
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
How many bets deep do you go on this river with the second nuts? There are 33 BB in the pot and the villian has about 7 more BB in his stack (I cover him). I feel like I should have gone 1 or 2 more bets, but my read was that he liked the 6 and I couldn't figure out how to balance this with the fact that he is a bad player.
I think I get his stack in here if I can. If he has 66 and rivered you, excrement occurs. How bad is he? are K6 and J6 in his range? (not sure he puts that much action in on the turn with 2 pair, but I wasn;t playing him. There are some players who will)

Pretend it's NL rather than FL. You're getting your stack in as fast as you can there. There's no real difference just because it's FL. It just means that you get the stacks in slower. Nice that there's no cap on bigger streets though.

Last edited by ssta; Mar 02, 2008 at 4:09pm.
ssta est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2008, 4:13pm   #5
BubbleBoy
BubbleBoy
 
BubbleBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BubbleBoy
Posts: 11,484
Reputation: 28914
BubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssta View Post
Pretend it's NL rather than FL. You're getting your stack in as fast as you can there. .
this is very wrong.

Quote:
Are you implying you would keep re-raising up to the full 11 times?
sure. I'd probably spice him up while doing so.
__________________

BubbleBoy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2008, 4:16pm   #6
ssta
Doyle Look-alike
 
ssta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 290
Reputation: 103
ssta will become famous soon enoughssta will become famous soon enough
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleBoy View Post
this is very wrong.
If it were NL the stacks would have gone in on the flop surely?
ssta est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2008, 4:20pm   #7
BubbleBoy
BubbleBoy
 
BubbleBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BubbleBoy
Posts: 11,484
Reputation: 28914
BubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond reputeBubbleBoy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssta View Post
If it were NL the stacks would have gone in on the flop surely?
that, and getting in 100BB stacks in NL happens with extremely weak hands as opposed to the hands you need to get 100BB stack in in FL.
__________________

BubbleBoy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 02, 2008, 5:41pm   #8
Boilermaker
Get off my lawn
 
Boilermaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: damning whippersnappers
Posts: 4,599
Reputation: 2426
Boilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssta View Post
I think I get his stack in here if I can. If he has 66 and rivered you, excrement occurs. How bad is he? are K6 and J6 in his range? (not sure he puts that much action in on the turn with 2 pair, but I wasn;t playing him. There are some players who will)

Pretend it's NL rather than FL. You're getting your stack in as fast as you can there. There's no real difference just because it's FL. It just means that you get the stacks in slower. Nice that there's no cap on bigger streets though.

Yes J6 and K6 are in his range, but the 7-bet on the turn is a very unusual event in FL. I have seen the betting go this deep less than 10 times in maybe a thousand of hours of live FL play. Pretending it is NL is not reasonable. I don't think I've ever (prior to this hand) seen anyone go past 5 or 6 bets without the nuts. If I should keep betting, I don't think it should be more than 1 or 2 more raises.
Boilermaker est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2008, 12:34am   #9
TWLLM
100
 
TWLLM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,271
Reputation: 957
TWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to beholdTWLLM is a splendid one to behold
Default

Umm, only way I stop at the 5th bet is if he accidentally turns over his quads.


If he has 7 more after the first 5 I probably stop before they all go in just because even a retard will stop eventually (he did stop at 7 on turn, didn't he?).

I figure him for JJ ~80% of the time here (he's a callbox preflop, not one to open-raise a lot, right? Plus on the turn he looks so much like JJ, the river 6 is something he likes no matter whether he has 66 or JJ). I fire one more time at least, and if he doesn't stop, I have a dilemna not going for one more raise; I don't put in his whole stack on the river, though, because eventually JJ would stop firing.

But there is no way the river should have fewer bets going in than the turn given how this hand has been played.
__________________
If I were Vietnamese my name would be Kno Nguyen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleU
Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
TWLLM est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2008, 2:01am   #10
Boilermaker
Get off my lawn
 
Boilermaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: damning whippersnappers
Posts: 4,599
Reputation: 2426
Boilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond reputeBoilermaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
Umm, only way I stop at the 5th bet is if he accidentally turns over his quads.


If he has 7 more after the first 5 I probably stop before they all go in just because even a retard will stop eventually (he did stop at 7 on turn, didn't he?).

I figure him for JJ ~80% of the time here (he's a callbox preflop, not one to open-raise a lot, right? Plus on the turn he looks so much like JJ, the river 6 is something he likes no matter whether he has 66 or JJ). I fire one more time at least, and if he doesn't stop, I have a dilemna not going for one more raise; I don't put in his whole stack on the river, though, because eventually JJ would stop firing.

But there is no way the river should have fewer bets going in than the turn given how this hand has been played.
This is basically the line of thought I had after the hand. I agree a couple more raises makes sense. At the time the reason I stopped is that he seemed to (finally) realize I was ahead on the turn, and he has to completely suck to not realize the 6 doesn't change that.

As it turns out he had J6. He was even weaker than I realized at the time. I took the rest of his stack an orbit later so it didn't end up mattering, but it is still an interesting spot and opponent.
Boilermaker est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 5:04pm. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.