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Old Mar 08, 2008, 1:38am   #1
SwoopAE
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Default Some Live Hands

SwoopAE has ~$400
Villain (Button) has ~$300

All players at the table are eurodonks (bad european LAG players) or mostly passive nits and average TAGs. UTG is a eurodonk, Button has just arrived at the table.

Stakes $2.50/5.00 PL Hold'em, 9 handed

Dealt to SwoopAE: 7d 7h

SB Posts $2.50
SwoopAE Posts $5
UTG calls $5
Folded around
Button Raises $10 to $15
SwoopAE calls $10
UTG calls $10

Pot Size: $47.50

Flop: Kh Js 4c

SwoopAE checks in the dark
UTG checks
Button bets $10
SwoopAE calls $10
UTG folds

Pot Size: $67.50

Turn: 9d

SwoopAE checks in the dark
Button bets $10
SwoopAE calls $10

Pot Size: $87.50

River: 7c

SwoopAE checks
Button bets $15
SwoopAE raises $30 to $45
Button excitedly raises $177.50 to $222.50
SwoopAE folds
Button shows Kc Ks

I was pretty sure he had AQ until the river and I was calling to take it away on the river if I missed and if he raised me I would know he was just badly slowplaying a set at which point I would be 100% sure I was beaten. Question is, when I made a hand, can I just flatcall the river here against an unknown villain? It's a pretty standard value raise/fold rivering the set here right?

Another Hand (10 handed PL Hold'em)

Cutoff is a eurodonk (well, actually, he was one of the only other Australians at the table, but he was a bad LAG internet player, so i'll call him a eurodonk)

Effective stacks ~$400

Dealt to SwoopAE: Qh Qd

SB Posts $2.50
BB Posts $5
UTG calls $5
UTG+1 folds
UTG+2 calls $5
MP1 calls $5
MP2 folds
Cutoff calls $5
Button folds
SwoopAE raises $27.50 to $32.50
BB folds
UTG folds
UTG+2 folds
MP1 folds
Cutoff calls $27.50

Flop: Kh Ts 3s

Pot Size: $92.50

SwoopAE bets $50
Cutoff calls $50

Pot Size: $192.50

Turn: 8c

SwoopAE checks
Cutoff bets $50

At this point I study for a while and he becomes very friendly and chatty, which is his weak tell. I tell him I think he's weak and ask if he beats pocket aces, he becomes even more chatty and starts urging me to call, another weak tell. I'm expecting him to call me with any king if I move in, the problem is, his preflop range is literally almost any two cards and I think he's drawing or maybe has a low PP. Eventually I decide that my read is good and he's been dying to put a move on me for hours.

SwoopAE raises $292.50 to $342.50 (AI for Villain)
Cutoff folds Js 9s face up.

+EV or -EV against a range that includes pretty much ATC? What's your calling range here if you are villain? Any king? AK+? 2p+?

Last edited by SwoopAE; Mar 10, 2008 at 7:07pm.
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Old Mar 08, 2008, 2:11am   #2
TWLLM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
but he was a bad LAG internet player, so i'll call him a eurodonk
Are we the villain in this hand?




Seriously though, hand one I fold flop w/o a second thought. Good laydown on river. His range is set/straight imo when he pushes so good fold.

Hand 2 is more difficult. I can see good reasons for calling, but then again, the river is going to be a bad card. I would also prefer betting turn than checking, because now I don't know where I am. Worked this time but I'm not sure either way whether it's a good move long-term.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Mar 08, 2008, 3:22am   #3
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Default

Quote:
SB Posts $2.50
BB Posts $5
UTG calls $5
UTG+1 folds
UTG+2 calls $5
MP1 calls $5
MP2 folds
Cutoff calls $5
SwoopAE raises $27.50 to $32.50
32.50?



also, if u are going to make a play on hand number 1 i think i might just raise the flop.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 6:42pm   #4
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These hands were pretty interesting because as I said, i'm not sure whether the moves were good or not at the time and they were heavily influenced by my feel for each player.

I tend to agree with the sevens hand, I usually set mine, but I felt he was either very strong or very weak (missed the flop entirely weak) and that I could take it away on a later street. Obviously, I was right, but not in the way I wanted. I felt he had AQ or AT exactly about 50% of the time.

TWLLM - I'm a nit when playing live. TAG borderline nit anyway. Play position and bet for value and you make a good 4-5BB/hr with minimal variance since the money always goes in good, seeing 25 h/h or whatever it is. Works out ok at 2/5.

I'm only a non-European Eurodonk when i'm playing online

Seriously, if I played LAG at the casino, I would be up and down 5 buyins within a single 8 hour session (200 hands or so)

Last edited by SwoopAE; Mar 10, 2008 at 7:07pm.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 6:57pm   #5
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Hand 1: You tried to call down to see if 77 is good? A Flopraise would get the job done more cheaply I guess. But then its a live game so it depends on the flow of the game and the read You have... The Riverplay is fine imo. No need to just call the bet. You can get lots of value from weaker hands. To be honest I dont like Your raise size. I would raise bigger here. I guess You get called by weaker hands also if You raise bigger. A missed draw will fold anyway. Good laydown though against the higher set. Its the right play I guess especially with Your read...

Hand 2: What happend at the turn? You check and he bets but You have position so that couldnt be the play. If he lead out at the turn I guess its a kind of weak bet with a draw most of the time. Calling Your Flopbet oop and leading out small on the turn is mostly a draw imo. Given the stacksizes and the Potsize a push is the best play here I guess. Calling is weak and misses some value from weaker hands and draws. Folding could be OK if a read tells You to. As played and with Your read on villain I think a push is fine here...
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 7:01pm   #6
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SB (Villain) is a LAG player, I had just stacked him for ~60BB ($300) with a set against 2p on a 3suited board with all of the money going in on the flop. A few minutes later, he doubled through me for the same amount when his 2s 5s outdrew my AQ on an AQ6 2 spade flop and the money went in again.

Effective Stacks are ~$300 each.

Dealt to SwoopAE

Ah 5h

SB Posts $2.50
BB Posts $5
UTG Folds
UTG+1 Folds
UTG+2 Folds
MP1 Calls $5
MP2 Folds
Cutoff Calls $5
SwoopAE Calls $5
SB Villain Calls $5
BB Checks

Flop: Ac 3h 5d

Pot Size: $25

SB Checks
BB Checks
MP1 Checks
Cutuff Checks
SwoopAE bets $15
SB Raises $25 to $40
BB Folds
MP1 Folds
Cutoff Folds
SwoopAE: ???

I've been playing with him for about half an hour and we've already stacked each other once each, both times we both had legitimate (although slightly overplayed on his part) hands.

I have top two pair and position on a rainbow board, but a lot of cards are bad for me on the turn. If I reraise to say, $100, i'm getting dangerously close to having half of my stack in and being committed to call a shove. If I call, i'm still in the dark to where I am in the hand. His range is probably AK, A3, 55, 33, A5, probably in order of likeliness, with maybe a 5% chance that he has AQ, AJ, AA or some other poorly played hand or bluff.

Anyway, assuming I have him beat, what is the best way to get him to stack off to me without letting him catch free cards... and assuming he has me beat, what is the cheapest way to get away? Do I ever get away from this with only ~$290 behind?

anyway, the hand plays out

SwoopAE raises $60 to $100
SB Folds As 3c face up.

Feels like a missed opportunity to stack him, but can I really afford to just call here and raise the turn against his range? Would that have been the correct move? Villain is a bad LAG player, so he's betting ~$80-100 on the turn, meaning that my raise will be all-in on the turn and i'm just giving him my stack if he has 33 or 55 or if he has AK/Q/J and the turn hits him, with no guarantee that I get paid if he has AK/Q/J and misses the turn.

In hindsight, a call and turn raise would make sense, although my line is better if he has AK/AQ/AJ since i'm not giving him a free card and he's getting my stack anyway if he has a set. The problem with my line is that a lot of his weaker hands fold now. I wasn't expecting him to fold A3 though. Thoughts?

Last edited by SwoopAE; Mar 10, 2008 at 7:10pm.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 7:04pm   #7
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Oops, I was SB not Button in that hand - I think. I might have been BB, but position wise it makes no difference for the sake of the hand. I was definitely out of position and I think I must have been confusing it with another hand when I was writing the original post. I led 50 on the flop and he called. The hand is accurate from the turn onwards, where I check raised. I'll fix it.

Added a hand 3 a few posts down.

Last edited by SwoopAE; Mar 10, 2008 at 7:08pm.
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