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Old May 03, 2008, 5:15am   #1
glockers
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Default $1/$2 casino hands for analysis

Got two hands from last night. I will discuss one up until the turn and get feedback then complete the hand. I will later post the second hand.

Only had a two hour gap before going out so decided to sit and try my luck. The games is $1/$2 with a buy in of $80 (max and min is $80). The 40 bb is a slight worry, plus the rake is 5% of pots up to $8 and a $5 an hour charge. Pretty ugly compared to Brisbane.

Anyway the table I get is full of preflop limpers. Nearly everyone tries to limp every hand, plus when it is raised you are getting it in four way.

I proceed to lose $20 by folding on flops basically. A couple of limps as well as one raised pot and folded flop. Anyway I am sitting on $59 when this hand occurs.

I am on the button and the second to act limps then a mid table player limps. I have king/queen of clubs. Not always a hand I play, but I figure I can't have limpers. I want to isolate so i raise to $8. Both blinds call, the early limper folds and then the mid table limper re raises to $18.

Now this messed me up a bit. He wasn't the first in the pot, he was second yet still limped. I didn't think a big pair made sense. Why limp behind a limper?

I started to think he was on ace queen or something and playing really weird.

I also knew I could shove here, since the pot size was more than my stack. But I figured I only get called by a hand dominating me.

So I flat call and both blinds flat call behind me.

The pot size is now $74 for those following at home, I have $41 behind me.

The flop comes down ace of clubs with two non club rags. Both blinds check and the re raiser also checks. I immediately get suspicious. I am like if he hit his ace he had to commit. If he had pocket aces he migth be trapping the top set.

I also figured maybe the guy was really weird and playing pocket jacks or pocket 10s. I figured that explained the weird re raise pre flop and he wanted a shove so we could flip for it. I figure the ace petrified him. I considered making the $41 shove right there and representing the ace, the problem though is the $74 pot and my shove won't look too scary.

Also what if the blinds were playing ace rag or a low pockets and hit two pair or a set. They would check and let myself or the re raiser bet.

So what the hell? I decide I can't actually bet, despite wanting to represent a hand. I check on the button and we see a turn.

The turn gives a second raggy club and suddenly I am on the nut flush draw. Both blinds check and the re raiser then shoves his $30 into the pot.

I look at my hand and consider whether he has a weak ace and played terribly, or whether it is pocket jacks or 10s. I also decide the blinds wouldn't check twice with a hand.

I decide I am drawing to any club and alot of the time my kings or queens are also live if they hit. 15 outs. I am a one in three shot. I shove my $46 ito a $104 pot deciding I was getting the right odds?

Firstly I really messed up this hand in so many ways, please feel free to tell me so.

Secondly is the turn shove correct?

Thirdly what the hell would you put this guy on?

Fourthly I will probably type what his hand was tomorrow and what happened on the river.
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Old May 04, 2008, 7:34am   #2
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He almost always shows up with AK here in my opinion; I would fold since you only have 9 outs in my opinion against almost all of his range

I also consider playing it differently preflop but thats not helpful

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Old May 04, 2008, 9:21am   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockers View Post
I also knew I could shove here, since the pot size was more than my stack. But I figured I only get called by a hand dominating me.
Your thought process is way off here. If what you say is true and you are getting the right odds to shove now, you should do it. If you are dominated now, the same is true on the flop with worse odds. Plus you have a decent chance to see the showdown headsup if you shove (I didn't work out whether your odds actually are in favor of shoving.)

Quote:
I decide I am drawing to any club and alot of the time my kings or queens are also live if they hit. 15 outs. I am a one in three shot. I shove my $46 ito a $104 pot deciding I was getting the right odds?
[...]
Secondly is the turn shove correct?
Probably not, as someone probably has an Ace and they are not folding anymore. And that is really all that matters to you here - someone has an Ace. Doesn't need to be the preflop raiser. You are drawing to 15 outs almost never here.

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Thirdly what the hell would you put this guy on?
Limp-reraise PF is almost always a big hand from a bad player. JJ+, AQ+, something like that but probably a bit looser.
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Old May 06, 2008, 4:11pm   #4
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Not much response, but for anyone who cares he had Pocket Kings. The line confused me completely and he played it fucking weird.
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Old May 06, 2008, 6:02pm   #5
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Man, that structure is just horrible. Rake, plus the hourly rate plus low max buy-in

Based on the low stakes, the low max buy-in and the guy limping, then reraising, I'd say he had a mid pocket pair and was hoping for a coin flip with someone, although the reraise is weird, I figure he would have just shoved.

Anyway I could see it being KK as well now that you mention it. His low stakes mentality is that preflop he wanted as much money in as possible, so he limped so that the others to act behind could raise (which you did), then he knew someone had a hand and he could reraise. Then the Ace shut him down from leading the next streets.

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Old May 06, 2008, 6:43pm   #6
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To me this looks a lot like AA/KK to me played by a really bad player (going just by pre-flop actions). I would've probably just folded to his 3-bet... or shoved if I was just there to have fun. I really don't like a shove on the flop. The blinds are never folding A-rag for less than a PSB, and there's a very good chance that one of them has Ax (assuming the 3-bettor doesn't have AA).

In my limited live experience a 4bb raise after two limpers isn't going to fold out hardly anyone. If you were going to raise KQs you should've made it like 12bb, otherwise just limp behind and play fit/fold. I've only played 1/2nl live, and the play was even more hilariously loose/passive than $10nl online.
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