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Old Jun 06, 2008, 3:04pm   #1
Hoss Man
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Default PLO free card suicide

This is not completely a blow my own horn post, but a lesson in how not to play two pair on the flop with a strong str8 draw (by the villain), and how free card cost him big time.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($425.05)
SB ($74.50)
BB ($230)
Hero ($210)
MP ($193)
CO ($76.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6, 5, A, A. CO posts a blind of $2.
Hero raises to $9, MP calls $9, 3 folds, BB calls $7.

Flop: ($30) 9, 6, J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $18, MP calls $18, BB calls $18.

"CRAP! They cold called"

Turn: ($84) 3 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

"Whew, Thanks guys!"


River: ($84) A (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $40, MP folds, BB calls $40.

"Wow, Thank you poker gods!"

Final Pot: $164

Results in white below:
BB has Qd 9d Td Js (two pair, jacks and nines).
Hero has 6d 5h Ad As (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $164.


Analysis:
I know I got lucky, so I'm not going to discuss that. I really want to look at this from the villain's play, because this is a classic situation in PLO. He could/should have won this hand easily by the turn.

Preflop: my Pot-sized raise screamed AAxx and his call in the BB was fine.

Flop: I was a huge dog on the flop. Should I have bet the pot here with my AAxx or some other amount than $18. Should he have bet out the flop or check raised.?I'm thinking check raise the flop. (I would have folded my AA there)

Turn: If I had called his check raise on the flop. He should have bet the Pot on the rag turn. IMO.

The villain was way too passive and it cost him.

Any thoughts on how to play this hand from the villain's perspective. Because I know I find myself in this situation often against AAxx hands and want to know how to push folks off of their AAxx.

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Last edited by Hoss Man; Jun 06, 2008 at 3:06pm.
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Old Jun 07, 2008, 12:59am   #2
john_delay
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imho:
b/r > c/r >>>> c/c on the flop (+ lead every turn if someone calls)
if he gets it all-in on flop or turn he is huge fav (80:20)
as played c/f > c/c on the river
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Old Jun 07, 2008, 2:08am   #3
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I like your flop bet size but it's also super exploitable

he played it terribly of course
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Old Jun 09, 2008, 3:23am   #4
TWLLM
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It doesn't sound from this post like you want a real discussion of his play, but imo the biggest mistake was probably calling your river bet. It was pretty much 100% obvious what you had given how you played, and he can't even really beat a bluff except for like kkxx. And there is very little chance you're bare bluffing against 2 players on the river there.


It is far from certain that he should be c/ring on the flop. Calling is not actually that bad given the flush draw is out there. Personally I would have c/r'ed you (see below), but save for the bluffing value, it is actually far more marginal than you think. If the 3rd guy folds, it is a must c/r. If he has KQJT it is a must c/r as well. I probably prefer KQJT here against two players (HU I prefer his actual holding b/c the 2pr has a much better chance of playing).

For future reference, this is not a strong straight draw. This is the second weakest straight draw in omaha (only a gutshot is worse), and with the flush draw being out there, he is missing 2 outs and faces the chance of a redraw if he does hit. The way it stands, his hand probably has the equivalent of a 5 out draw when you factor in the redraw and domination possibilities. An OESD is shit in omaha - the only thing that makes his hand good is that he has ttp with the draw, which means that he can win most brick-brick allins in a HU situation.

As for how you played it, imo either bet stronger on the flop or check. Betting half pot (give or take) just makes you any decent players' bitch. A check is actually stronger looking than half pot imo, because a check could at least be a nfd+overpair, whereas half pot screams naked aaxx (more than your pot-sized raise preflop screams aaxx). Even a nit like me gets the urge to take this pot away from you on the flop when you bet half pot.

You probably need to re-evaluate betting this flop then checking the turn. It's just ugly imo. So I probably check flop since this is so drawy. And yes, I give up to a single psb. This is a very bad flop for your hand 3-way oop to one of your opponents.

You did get one part of the hand right, though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss Man
I know I got lucky
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 12, 2008, 2:19am   #5
Hoss Man
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Actually I do want a real discussion about his play. I see alot of folk over playing AAxx OOP at PLO and being passive with monster draws in pos.

This hand is a classic example of me screaming AAxx preflop, missing the flop and being allowed to draw cheap to the miracle out. He should and could have pushed me out here but didn't.

It's similar to a 33T board and everyone checking to you on the button. I instabet the pot if everyone limped preflop. Position is very important in PLO.

Thanks for the feedback so far
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