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Old Jun 20, 2008, 5:00am   #1
joeyjoejoejr
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Default 4 Betting Light In Omaha ..

3 Betting Light is becoming increasingly common and it is quite difficult to defend against.

Position is just so important in PLO that the BTN can three-bet any reasonable hand profitably.

Now in holdem if the BTN was three-betting your Cutoff open every round you would start to 4-bet light. But can you do it in PLO? And what hands should you do it with?

Im struggling with it.

I would like to 4-bet KKxx since it is probably "good" and will be tough to play post flop but if he 5-bet shoves AAxx you get it in pretty bad and struggle if you have odds to call. And he calls your 4-bet with a good rundown hand your suffering badly from reverse implied odds and he will never stack off without a lot of equity. So I almost always just muck most KK, QQ hands when someone three-bets. But against the most crazy of BTNs I do 4-bet KK sometimes usually only if its AKK (making AA a little more unlikely for him )

So 4-betting good rundown hands seems like the better option. But these hands actually play decently in 3bet pots OOP so there isnt really much need to 4bet them. But perhaps a 4-bet with QJ108 once in a while is a good idea and you can snap call a 5bet shove if does have aces

The final choice of hand to 4 bet is a trashier hand you would just fold but still can hit fairly well. Like KsQh5s4h or 10984. You would call a 5-bet shove since your equity against AA with any unpaired somewhat connected hand isnt ever that bad. Im not sure how I feel about 4 betting really light like this and have never tried it

Any thoughts or advice on 4-betting in PLO?
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Old Jun 21, 2008, 10:04pm   #2
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IDK how to adjust 4-betting that often because I (intentionally) play games where 3/4-betting is rare.


TBH, you should maybe consider limping more often and taking away the 3-bet play from aggro players on the button. This isn't holdem, limping to open is far more acceptable, even if you do want to mix it up between limping and open raising with similar types of hands. Limping is better FR, but in PLO it's not a bad play even shorthanded. Just make sure you know how to adjust to how people will play against you post-flop knowing you limped.

As for what to do when 3-bet, I would just continue what you're doing, and not start trying to 4-bet far more often as a countermeasure. No one ever ever ever folds to a 4-bet in omaha after 3-betting themselves - you just have to play your hand oop imo. That said, position isn't necessarily as big a problem in these spots as in others, because you know pretty much 100% of the time what they will do when you check - I doubt too many light 3-bettors check behind the flop (unless they're really strange players). So just continue to play the hands that do well against a 3-bet, and maybe the hands that want to see the flop with only one raise, consider limping them a little bit more often.

For example, I'd almost certainly raise a suited rundown, but I might limp decent kk/qq hands. I know that reduces your ability to steal pots post-flop, but as long as you mix it up a little, it shouldn't hurt too much. You also might even throw in some limp/3-bet moves against the button, since they'll almost 100% put you on aaxx (and you can be tricky with your rundowns and other drawish hands - repping the aaxx but actually having nothing of the sort, and getting raised light when the flop is drawy - which hopefully means you'll hit some sort of draw and get it in good).

Not much in the way of a general strategy for you, but it's something to think about - just remember in PLO getting 3-bet isn't necessarily so bad, but then again, neither is limping or limp/3-betting strong non-aaxx hands.
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Old Jun 22, 2008, 10:59am   #3
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Interesting article.

I'm not good enough at Omaha to make a worthwhile contribution (since i'm probably only profitable up to about 1/2 PLO) but i'd like to see what more people have to say on the topic.
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 3:54pm   #4
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This is why we need a Omaha forum
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 2:07am   #5
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This is why we need a Omaha forum
I should also stop slacking (ie. working on school) and actually get my omaha game in proper shape (esp. the shorthand stuff) so I could actually post a video or maybe even write up a short article on it, so we'd have some things to discuss in the omaha thread (other than one outers, ldo).

Joeyjoejoe is a strong omaha player imo (and w/o the beats and subsequent stories to get in the way) so it'd be nice if we got his expertise in here more often.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 3:15am   #6
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Vid-e-o, Vid-e-o, Vid...
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 5:04am   #7
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Vid-e-o, Vid-e-o, Vid...
Just admit it - you just want a video for the same reason Boomer does - 'I wonder what will happen if he gets one-outered? Probably just be the sound of something flying through the room'.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleU
Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 5:00am   #8
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What do think about this kind of stuff. BB is pretty good

PokerStars Game #18614550608: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/07/06 - 00:53:31 (ET)
Table 'Rhodesia' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: joeyjoejr ($1177.30 in chips)
Seat 2: nskylinezz ($331.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Roywing ($403.20 in chips)
Seat 5: jus2awsum ($293.90 in chips)
Seat 6: ParkerKane ($396 in chips)
jus2awsum: posts small blind $2
ParkerKane: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joeyjoejr [9h Kc Qh Tc]
joeyjoejr: raises $10 to $14
nskylinezz: calls $14
Roywing: calls $14
jus2awsum: folds
ParkerKane: raises $58 to $72
joeyjoejr: raises $174 to $246
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 6:33am   #9
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It's spew, but judging by your stack size you're running good so go for it. Even if he has aaxx it's only 40/60.

That said I'm happier calling and hopefully getting some other customers here. This is an incredibly good hand in a multiway pot on a lot of flops.

If you got him to fold, I guess he was on a move with some kind of wrap hand. But unlike in hold'em where putting in 1/6th of your stack preflop on a call is bad, here I like it. You will flop strong a lot here, and he'll have trouble calling your flop shove if you hit enough to do so. Plus with the other customers you might win a really big pot. Shoving just seems to excentuate the negative in your hand (it's lower allin equity versus his 3-bet range) and minimize the positive (that you have a big advantage post-flop on a lot of flops, and can get away cheap on pretty much any other flop).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleU
Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 7:03am   #10
joeyjoejoejr
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How about this one?
3 betting villiain has a pretty wide range

Table 'Pikelner' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: The Avatar ($400 in chips)
Seat 2: ParkerKane ($551.40 in chips)
Seat 3: dontryitfool ($519.80 in chips)
Seat 4: Bank Vault1 ($1223.10 in chips)
Seat 5: Larry Emdur ($514.45 in chips)
Seat 6: joeyjoejr ($445 in chips)
joeyjoejr: posts small blind $2
The Avatar: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joeyjoejr [Kd Jh Td Ks]
ParkerKane: raises $10 to $14
dontryitfool: raises $34 to $48
Bank Vault1: calls $48
Larry Emdur: folds
joeyjoejr: raises $162 to $210
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