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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:08am   #1
joeyjoejoejr
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Default 4bet AK miss now what?

wrong forum please move

Villian thought a long while before calling the 4bet
Doesnt seem great (limped UTG twice) is playing 26/14 or so but I dont have many hands with him

Seat 1: NNICOLAS ($193.80 in chips)
Seat 2: cyphellus ($246.75 in chips)
Seat 3: mrcrgl ($214.20 in chips)
Seat 4: GILESPI ($179.45 in chips)
Seat 5: joeyjoejr ($242 in chips)
Seat 6: drunkenp ($54.05 in chips)
NNICOLAS: posts small blind $1
cyphellus: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joeyjoejr [As Ks]
mrcrgl: folds
GILESPI: folds
joeyjoejr: raises $4.50 to $6.50
drunkenp: calls $6.50
NNICOLAS: folds
cyphellus: raises $25.50 to $32
joeyjoejr: raises $38 to $70
drunkenp: folds
cyphellus: calls $38
*** FLOP *** [6c 5h 9h]
cyphellus: checks

Last edited by joeyjoejoejr; Jul 21, 2008 at 3:10am. Reason: wrong forum
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:17am   #2
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Pot (or close to pot) if you think he folds TT-QQ, putting you on AA/KK only, and call a shove obviously if you bet pot. Do NOT make a small c-bet, he will shove an overpair over you if you give him any illusion of fold equity. Don't open shove either, that looks weak. Pot tells him you have AA/KK and you're committing your stack.

Check behind if you think he can't fold an overpair.

It depends on whether you believe villain is capable of making a 'good' laydown if he puts you on KK/AA. If you think he's capable of folding, make him fold. If you think he calls, check behind and hope to see an ace or king on the turn.
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:42am   #3
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joes that 4th bet is horrible, what's with that sizing?
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:51am   #4
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He's right actually. Flat it to control the pot size or reraise enough that a pot bet puts you all-in on the flop to maximise fold equity preflop and take away the need for a postflop decision.
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:52am   #5
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On contary I think small 4bets are by far the most profitable type of 4bet
I would do this size with AA or 76s as well and I'm calling a shove with AKs obviosly.

He can't setmine to this bet.
I'm not commited if I'm 4betting bluffing
He may think he has fold equity so he may 5bet bluff
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:54am   #6
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betting makes no sense unless he has AK as well


vs this guy I don't like preflop too much. He's not 5bet bluffing and you have a hand that plays fine if you just call.


also Im not 100% sure what 4bet sizing rules apply when a guy is passive preflop. My gut tells me 4bet shoving is the best play with an appropriate range.
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 3:59am   #7
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I remember reading somthing by bubble boy a while back about how smaller 4 betting sizes is efficient, and I agree with it, however with these stacks you have just put yourself in a horrible position, I can't believe someone is going to 5 bet bluff with this action, just either make it a 100 and jam flop or jam it now even?
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 4:02am   #8
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Small 4bets can be appropriate but this isnt really the time for it imo.

Also, his 5bet shove range is only pocket pairs and AK in my opinion. He doesn't 5bet shove this on a bluff, ever, since your hand really, really looks like a big PP trying to get value.
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