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Old Oct 15, 2008, 9:02am   #1
eric melvin rules
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Default $50pl donked into on turn w/top 2

Opening this UTG was probably a bit on the spewy side, but the people to my left we nits, and the SB was a monkey so I expected to be in position a lot. Maybe still bad?

Anyway... BB hasn't played many hands at all. Seems fairly tight and uncreative. I'm having a very tough time putting him on a hand when he donks the turn. Can I raise/get it in here, or should I just call and what's the plan for the river if I don't improve and he bets.

PokerStars Game #21209258098: 8-Game (Omaha Pot Limit, $0.25/$0.50) - 2008/10/15 3:51:56 ET
Table 'Ausonia II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: hubble ($29.70 in chips)
Seat 2: PlayinHoldem ($30.65 in chips)
Seat 3: southrnctowl ($49.95 in chips)
Seat 4: el vivo rock ($61.65 in chips)
Seat 5: Bignutz301 ($22.45 in chips)
Seat 6: schemr ($69 in chips)
PlayinHoldem: posts small blind $0.25
southrnctowl: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to el vivo rock [8c Td Jh 7d]
el vivo rock: raises $1.25 to $1.75
Bignutz301: folds
schemr: folds
hubble: folds
PlayinHoldem: folds
southrnctowl: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [3s Jd 5d]
southrnctowl: checks
el vivo rock: bets $3
southrnctowl: calls $3
*** TURN *** [3s Jd 5d] [8h]
southrnctowl: bets $6
el vivo rock:
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 9:25pm   #2
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I have no problem with you open-raising that hand UTG. It's the flop that is questionable.

It was a really marginal call on the flop - you almost prefer *not* to have the flush draw since it's only ever going to be good when your opponent totally shuts down, and you can then steal anyway.


But all that said, now that you called flop you have to call turn. There is an argument to be made for raising since he might be on a draw, but at least if you call and he fires hard after a draw hits, you can probably assume he's hit it given the board. So I say call, re-evaluate on the river and hope the river is a J.
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 10:20pm   #3
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The flop he checked to me and I bet into him.
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 4:37am   #4
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The flop he checked to me and I bet into him.
Whoops! I didn't even see that - someone betting out on the turn when they called the flop is often a draw that hit, but here no draw actually hit. So I'm guessing he's hit two pair or was slowplaying a set and now realizes he's actually not draw immune.


The play is still a call imo, but it's much closer. A raise is so-so, but I worry it's just going to shut out a lot of hands you beat, and put you at the mercy of dominating hands. That said, at these stakes I wouldn't be surprized to see a lot of unknown players show up with just 58xx here or jacks up. So maybe a raise is fine as well. Just don't fold.

If you just call, and the river bricks, you have to call again.
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Old Oct 22, 2008, 6:10pm   #5
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I think a raise is better, try to get some money into the pot, maybe you can even make him shove.
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Old Oct 22, 2008, 9:35pm   #6
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I think a raise is better, try to get some money into the pot, maybe you can even make him shove.
In plo, you probably don't want to get shoved on here. Your hand is crushed compared to his shove range, which oop after calling flop will probably only contain monsters (sets in this case) or uberdraws (e.g. full wraps or full wraps plus other draws or other outs - such as fd with the wrap, or a pair that could make trips and be best at showdown). And if you raise, you can't fold, meaning it puts you between a rock and a hard place.

Two pair is one of the most dangerous and most overplayed hands in plo. In fact, subject to the context, I'd say it's the most overplayed in general.

Raising is fine with a read, and even here it's not horrible, it's just risky and I would say it's probably not optimal.
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Old Oct 30, 2008, 4:16pm   #7
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Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
In plo, you probably don't want to get shoved on here. Your hand is crushed compared to his shove range, which oop after calling flop will probably only contain monsters (sets in this case) or uberdraws (e.g. full wraps or full wraps plus other draws or other outs - such as fd with the wrap, or a pair that could make trips and be best at showdown). And if you raise, you can't fold, meaning it puts you between a rock and a hard place.

Two pair is one of the most dangerous and most overplayed hands in plo. In fact, subject to the context, I'd say it's the most overplayed in general.

Raising is fine with a read, and even here it's not horrible, it's just risky and I would say it's probably not optimal.

I agree with you that usually it's overplayed, but after he checked and only called the flop, I don't see him having a set.

But... in those stakes, I guess you can never know.
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Last edited by shabak; Apr 30, 2011 at 9:02pm.
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