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Old Nov 30, 2008, 7:48am   #1
Tyrone Shuz
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Default Help! I need the couch!!

I need to learn how to take bad beats in stride.

Been bubbling in 2x tourneys where I'd have the guy dominated and he hits his kicker. It makes me feel like a sucker, because I rarely give out bad beats (it does happen on rare occasion) but it happens to me with ridiculous frequency. Knowing I'm in with the better cards is cold comfort.

If I'm outplayed, that's fine. If you got me, you got me. I'm quite gracious in that regard. But when I get beat bad I want to stick my head through my TV set.

And it usually happens when I'm all-in, and it can turn a winning day into a losing one when it happens a couple of times in a row.
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 8:08am   #2
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Shuz View Post
I need to learn how to take bad beats in stride.

Been bubbling in 2x tourneys where I'd have the guy dominated and he hits his kicker. It makes me feel like a sucker, because I rarely give out bad beats (it does happen on rare occasion) but it happens to me with ridiculous frequency. Knowing I'm in with the better cards is cold comfort.

If I'm outplayed, that's fine. If you got me, you got me. I'm quite gracious in that regard. But when I get beat bad I want to stick my head through my TV set.

And it usually happens when I'm all-in, and it can turn a winning day into a losing one when it happens a couple of times in a row.
My guess is you are like the millions of people who are convinced they always get sucked out on but never suck out. The fact is, I'm guessing when other players muck at showdown you aren't checking to see what they had, and they often got sucked out on by you. You just don't remember it because you only remember the hands you get sucked out on.

Take comfort in knowing that statistics isn't biased, and if you play enough hands and are a winning player you will end up ahead.
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 8:22am   #3
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Depending on what you mean by "rare," you might be getting it in with too tight a range in spots (what is 2x tourneys, btw? do you mean double-or-nothings, or just that it happened twice? if it's the former, take my previous comment with a grain of salt -- it might still be true, but the payout structure impacts ranges, especially call ranges, heavily, and it could be just as likely that you're getting involved too much), causing your stack to dwindle, and thus making bubbling all the more likely.

As for advice, I have a slight problem with berating players so I'm probably not the best person to dish it out at this point. I think, though, that it's mostly just something where you suck it up and deal. You try to remove your ego from the equation, and just make the best decisions that you can, focusing only on the things you can control. When the things you can't control render all your efforts useless, there still is nothing productive that you can do besides take a deep breath.

Even when you get it in as an 80/20 favorite, 20 percent is a much larger percentage than most players seem to think.

Lastly, you're getting it in with cards that are ahead of your opponents' range of hands, not a specific hand. Sometimes getting snap-called by aces is, in a sense, a bad beat as well. Similarly, this is something beyond your control.
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 8:54am   #4
Tyrone Shuz
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At Stars, where I play, you can check the mucked hands. It's amazing how far ahead I am sometimes when I'm sweating bullets.

I don't catch many rivers (though it does happen, just happened in fact), I find myself ahead and hanging on hoping they don't hit their flush or boat.

As far as why my stack is small, it's often because I've had a bad run of cards and the blinds and antes have eaten my stack down, and I wait for my chance.

I've been playing turbo dbl/nothings lately, because the rake is half as much. I think my game is likely better suited to the non-turbos, but boy, you pay for it.

Tonight I went runner-runner and busted out a player who flopped a set (I had AK and flopped an A). And I'd have been crippled had I lost--not dead, and have come back from worse, but in dire straights. But that's once, compared to the half-dozen all-in bad beats I've taken in the last couple days.

I need a mantra or something. "Calm Blue Ocean" doesn't seem to work!
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 10:05am   #5
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Here you go, just think how lucky you are not to be in a situation where you could have a real bad beat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDNBPY3hoQ
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 1:03pm   #6
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Been bubbling in 2x tourneys where I'd have the guy dominated and he hits his kicker. It makes me feel like a sucker, because I rarely give out bad beats (it does happen on rare occasion) but it happens to me with ridiculous frequency.
Chances are you are far too passive around the bubble (and in general) 'waiting for premium hands'. I used to be the same. If you fold down to 6BB and then get your kings cracked by A7, that sucks but you should never be putting yourself in that spot to begin with. 30% of the time you're out, then you double to 12bb, fold for two laps and find AK, get all in against AQ with your 7bb and bust 30% of the time again or double to 14bb

Look to chip up without showdowns more by restealing and open raising more aggressively in late position.

If you rarely give out bad beats, you're doing it wrong (*tournament play, that is)

Being TAG/nitty is great for cash games and the early stages of MTTs but late in MTTs once the antes kick in, you have to get more aggressive and sooner.

If you don't agree with my advice then um... try alt tabbingt every time you're all in then alt tab back after the hand and don't look at the HH ever.

Also, remember, if you have someone dominated, you're still usually only 70-73% to win or 80% if you have an overpair. 70-80% is NOT 100% and if you're all in with AK against AQ 10 times, you should lose 3 and win 7. If you're all in with aces against kings, you lose 2 and win 8.

Poker isn't all about getting it in with the best hand sometimes...
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 1:05pm   #7
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As far as why my stack is small, it's often because I've had a bad run of cards and the blinds and antes have eaten my stack down, and I wait for my chance.
This is a MASSIVE leak and needs to be addressed if you want to be more than a breakeven tournament player.

Yes, sometimes it is correct to move all-in preflop over a raise with hands as weak as T8s or K7 or to open shove 8-12BB with any two cards.
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 4:45pm   #8
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While I'm moving this thread to where it belongs, can someone inform SSTA that someone else needs use of 'the couch?' (I still don't get the title...)
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 8:59pm   #9
Tyrone Shuz
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Default "the couch" = shrink's couch

I don't suppose shrinks use couches anymore, but that was the old stereotype, and thus my reference.

SWOOP:

You're onto something for sure, and it's something I'm working on, but not enough, obviously. Once the antes kick in, if I'm on the button, if I have two cards 9 or up, I'm raising. If can afford 3x or 4x BB w/o being committed, that's what I do, otherwise all in.

My strategy is to show down only strong hands, then I can make moves almost with impunity later in the SNG, when it matters. The problem with this is, if I don't get reasonable cards or even slightly worse, I'm in trouble. I have to wait to double up, and probably more than once. That's bad, because w/a small enough stack, ATC will look you up.

I am a winning player, but not tremendously so--ROI in tourneys is 4%, but obviously I started out a worse player than I am now, so recent ROI is probably 10% or better. Still not kicking butt, but it sure beats losing.

The problem is, a LOT of folks trap by limping w/AA and KK, especially in the dbl/nada SNG's. It's hard to know when to re-pop somebody, and do you really want to commit half or more of your stack on a pair of napkins? I imagine you can do this early on, but then you're risking lots of chips on a very small pot.

I guess what I'm saying is, where is that magical area to be aggressive and "chip up" with the least liklihood of being called combined with a pot that actually means something?

I read and loved Gus Hansen's book, but the stacks are MUCH deeper in that situation. I do make moves now. Some. I'd like to make more (as long as they're not maniacal, and have a decent percentage of working).

If someone raises UTG 3xBB, I'm not sure he can be re-stolen. I imagine you mean re-stealing a button raise, or a CO raise?
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 6:31pm   #10
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Yes, and i'm also referring more to MTT play than SnG play. I didn't realise you were talking about SnGs. SnGs reward nitty play, so you're probably playing better than me in SnGs already (my ROI would be single figure positive if I had to guess in single table SnGs from $10 up about $22 SnGs then breakeven/losing, slightly better at micros obviously because everyone sucks)
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