THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Jan 24, 2009, 8:26am   #1
MARYAM007
River Rat
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 12
Reputation: 0
MARYAM007 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default outs when looking for a flush?

hi, how do i figure how many outs i have when looking for a flush. dont know where to begin to calculate that. say i have two hearts in the hole, and 2 hearts at the flop, what would be the # outs? or if i have two in the hole and one in the flop, or one in the hole and two at the flop. how would i calculate that for the turn?
MARYAM007 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Jan 24, 2009, 9:29am   #2
Red4Eva
Grinder
 
Red4Eva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 898
Reputation: 651
Red4Eva is a splendid one to beholdRed4Eva is a splendid one to beholdRed4Eva is a splendid one to beholdRed4Eva is a splendid one to beholdRed4Eva is a splendid one to beholdRed4Eva is a splendid one to behold
Default

13 hearts in the deck, you have 2 and theres 2 on the flop = 9 outs.
Red4Eva est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 2:40am   #3
darryl
Still can't quit day job.
 
darryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: chicago area
Posts: 1,232
Reputation: 1220
darryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud ofdarryl has much to be proud of
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

You could have more or less outs too depending on the situation.
Say you have Ace and king of hearts and the flop has two hearts and is queen high. You are pretty sure the opponent has a pair of queens. You would have the 9 heart outs, plus three aces and three kings for a total of 15 outs.

Obviously you are guessing what the opponent has, so you could be way off. If the opponent has pocket queens and hit three of a kind, then an ace or king won't help you. Also if the board pairs up, your opponent will get a full house which beats your flush, so you would then have a few less outs.

-d
__________________
__________________
AFPP Supporter
Supporting a friendlier pokertips.org since 2008
darryl est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 11:47am   #4
MmmmBalf
Doyle Look-alike
 
MmmmBalf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 411
Reputation: 10
MmmmBalf is on a distinguished road
Default

A backdoor flush draw (ie you have 2 in the hole and one on the flop, or 1 in the hole and 2 on the flop) comes in so rarely that you shouldn't be calculating outs to make it. It's roughly 23:1 against making a backdoor flush by the river (close to 4%) - there are 10/47 cards to hit on the turn, then 9/46 on the river. You might count it as being one out, however you'll be needing other reasons to continue with the hand than just this extremely weak draw.

As described above, 2 in the hole and 2 on the flop leaves you with 9 outs to hit. This gives you a roughly 4:1 chance to hit on both the turn and the river.

Balf
__________________
If you think you can do a thing, or you think you can't do a thing, either way you're right - Henry Ford
MmmmBalf est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 12:13pm   #5
Boomer2k6
TWLLM'ing My Showdowns
 
Boomer2k6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northwich, Cheshire, England
Posts: 1,995
Reputation: 189
Boomer2k6 has a spectacular aura aboutBoomer2k6 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Boomer2k6 Send a message via MSN to Boomer2k6 Send a message via Skype™ to Boomer2k6
Default

Actually in Limit games backdoor draws can turn a flop fold into a call or raise.

Also you can have multiple weak draws which can be as strong as or even stronger than one good draw

i.e. You have QhTh on a Jh 8c 2d board. Here you've got one overcard to the board, a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw which gives you approximately 8.5 outs vs AJ (3 for your overcard, 4 for your gutshot and about 1.5 for your BDFD...BDSD being worth about 1 out) which overall equity wise is almost as strong vs AJ as T9o (QhTh is about has about 34.2% vs 32.5% for the combo draw) which most player by default would play very aggressively.
__________________
BLOG FWIW!!

Limit Holdem: Because All 4 Streets Matter!!

You've Nowhere to Hide
Nowhere to Run
You're Rage, It'll
BURN Like the Heart of the Sun!!
With Infinite Glee
It's Going to be Me
That Minbets The World!!!

Boomer2k6 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2009, 2:40pm   #6
SwoopAE
CAPITAO
 
SwoopAE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 13,271
Reputation: 4070
SwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond reputeSwoopAE has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

Most of the time a flush draw is just under 40% against top pair.

A flush draw with one overcard/gutshot straight draw to villain's pair gives you 12 outs which is just under 50%

A flush draw with 2 overcards to villain's pair/open ended straight draw gives you 15 outs which is better than 50%
__________________
Chat Monitor (Support): SwoopAE has lost their chat privilege for 5 minutes. Spamming the table is prohibited.

SwoopAE est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2009, 12:14am   #7
realyreal
Doyle Look-alike
 
realyreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 282
Reputation: 6
realyreal is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Yes, you should count the backdoor flush draw as about 1 out. Keep in mind that if the board pairs, you may be up against a full house, and your out has been counterfeited.
realyreal est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2009, 10:57pm   #8
WhoCares
River Rat
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 12
Reputation: 0
WhoCares
Default

There are some very nice in-depth articles on poker probabilities with a lot of tables in Wikipedia:
Texas Hold'em Probabilites
Very helpful are also the estimation formulas as nobody expects you to do the sometimes pretty complex math on the table.
WhoCares est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 4:03am. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.