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Old Feb 18, 2009, 6:12pm   #1
ejaredx
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Default ~ Tricky Situation

Playing micro-limits; 25c/50c.


I'm first to the pot, in MP w/AA, KK, or AK (doesn't matter), and I raise plfop 3.5xBB

I get one caller in EP, and one in LP.

Board 6H 7S 2H

Person in EP BETS into me what does this mean? Usually I assume
he has a STRONG flush or straight draw, or maybe even both?

Do you: Call him? Raise since you have overpair? Fold because you think he has a very strong draw?
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Old Feb 18, 2009, 6:22pm   #2
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OH by teh way

this is no-limit cash game, lol.
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Old Feb 18, 2009, 6:48pm   #3
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That is a donk bet, and it kind of matters what the size of the bet is. If it is small, then it could be a draw that they are trying to see the next card for cheaper then it would be if they had to call your continuation bet. If it is large/normal size then it could mean that they are trying to take control of the pot by betting before you get a chance or are testing whether you hit the flop and want to continue.

I almost always raise a donk bet because I think it leads to the most benefits.

1.) You don't let a draw see the next card priced low.
2.) You claim that your hand is strong and maintain control of the hand.
3.) You get more information about how serious the person's hand is.

Obviously though it does matter who it is that is in the hand. If the guy who donked you is a rock, then you might assume that he probably has you beat (most rocks don't bet until they hit their draw or have a set). On the other hand if the guy is really loose and aggressive you are much more inclined to not really take the bet too seriously.

Also in this situation you have to take into account the guy left to act behind you. I still like the raise overall though because the guy in late pos. will see a bet and raise, and needs a good hand to justify calling or raising with the original bettor still to act. So even if the raise results in a re-raise, it lets you know where your hand likely stands.

That is the way I look at it, and am interested to see if my own thoughts about this are flawed.
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Old Feb 18, 2009, 6:51pm   #4
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Hello and welcome to the forums! Before we answer, could you answer a few more questions so that we can give a better answer?

1. Is this an online game or a live game?
2. Is this a 9/10 person full ring game or 6 person game?
3. How much money do your opponents and you have left in your stack?
4. What is your exact hand here? It matters greatly whether you have an overpair or just two overcards.
5. Are either of your cards a heart?
6. Do you have any reads on your opponents? Even as generic as "plays extremely tight" will help.

If you give us some specific information, you can get a specific answer back. Otherwise the answer will end up being "it depends..."

Cheers!
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Old Feb 18, 2009, 7:13pm   #5
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1. Online game

2. 9/10 person full game

3. Average stacks, $50 (around there, each)

4. KK is my hand, but this has happened with AK

5. None of my cards are hearts

6. Any reads on opponents? Not really, I'm playing 5 tables at once, I'm too much of a novice to be good at reading. SOME things are obvious like if they bet 1/2 pot they want you to call, especialyl on river, but other than that no.

^-- This is not just one person who did this tho, I've encountered more than a few people doing this in the past, whether they were donks or notI do not know. BUT remember in microlimits, donks are much more plentiful, I'd say in a game of 10 ppl, usually there are 5 good players (including me), and 5 donks.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 7:24am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaredx View Post
1. Online game

2. 9/10 person full game

3. Average stacks, $50 (around there, each)

4. KK is my hand, but this has happened with AK

5. None of my cards are hearts

6. Any reads on opponents? Not really, I'm playing 5 tables at once, I'm too much of a novice to be good at reading. SOME things are obvious like if they bet 1/2 pot they want you to call, especialyl on river, but other than that no.

^-- This is not just one person who did this tho, I've encountered more than a few people doing this in the past, whether they were donks or notI do not know. BUT remember in microlimits, donks are much more plentiful, I'd say in a game of 10 ppl, usually there are 5 good players (including me), and 5 donks.
Really, it varies and there is no way of knowing for sure whether or not it's a draw or a strong hand or just someone trying to bet into you instead of raising your c-bet to discourage you from continuing.

That said, raise it almost always with AA/KK on this type of board. You aren't automatically afraid of a set just because he bet into you.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 2:36pm   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaredx View Post
BUT remember in microlimits, donks are much more plentiful, I'd say in a game of 10 ppl, usually there are 5 good players (including me), and 5 donks.
I'm at the 50/100 NL limits as well, and unless you are playing at european sites I am excluded from, I don't see how you can consider half of your opponents "donks" in today's online poker world, especially if they have a full 100BB stack.

I'm happy at a full-ring table with 1-2 weak players. Maybe you need to give more credit to unknowns at your level, especially if they have a full stack and are topping off.

Gone are the days of plentiful villians who felt top pair + weak kicker. Now those people seem to be few and far between.

Keep in mind this is American facing poker sites.

In your specific hand example, I agree with raising the donk bet with AA/KK, making sure to fold to a reraise on the flop or another pot sized donk-bet on the turn.

I hope you're snap folding AK in this situation if its a strong donk bet. You can't win every flop.

Also, do you use any type of stat tracking software, like Poker Tracker 3 or Holdem Manager? If not I highly recommend it...
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 5:22pm   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaredx View Post

I'm too much of a novice to be good at reading. there are 5 good players (including me), and 5 donks.
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Old Feb 19, 2009, 8:15pm   #9
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I'm struggling to work out whether or not hero is a novice or not. I personally do not consider NL50 to be micro stakes - low stakes, certainly, but micro is what I play, NL5 and NL10!!

And yet, I wouldn't dare play 4-5 tables until I knew my answer to the op question; 'no reads because I'm multi-tabling' sounds like an excuse for not paying attention (cf multi-tabling for +EV).

On that flop, there's a huge difference between any premium overpair and overcards without a flush draw at the very least. If you truly believe you are ahead, you must make him pay to catch up. If all you've got is Ace high and no draw, then you'll need balls or a soul read to continue; both are possible, but both unlikely if you're not paying sufficient attention.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 2:29pm   #10
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basic strategy: with overpairs just keep betting and raising until all the money is in. That might not be optimal, but it will be pretty good.
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