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Old Feb 19, 2009, 12:56am   #1
dsc5085
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Default 2pair facing craise on river

0.05/0.10 NL, 9 players

UTG-$20.17
Hero(button)-$9.57

Preflop: Hero has 9cKc
UTG limps in for 0.10. Folded around to hero. Hero raises to 0.45. SB and BB fold. UTG calls 0.35.

Flop($1.05) 6c Ad 9d
UTG checks. Hero bets 0.70. UTG calls 0.70.

Turn($2.45) 6c Ad 9d Ks
UTG checks. Hero bets $1.80. UTG calls $1.80.

River($6.05) 6c Ad 9d Ks Jh
UTG checks. Hero bets $3.00. UTG goes allin for $17.22. Hero.

No reads on UTG. I only had around $3.60 more to call. Thoughts on hand? Thanks.
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 4:21am   #2
Yatalocker
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I think your priced in to call.
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 6:16am   #3
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Definitely a call.
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 2:18pm   #4
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I think you have to fold, he's either chased a flush draw and hit some crazyass straight or he's got a better 2 pair. Just because it looks like you have pot odds to call doesn't mean you should call when you know you're dead in the water.

Then again it is 10nl so maybe.....but you're dead here 95% of the time.

EDIT - Oh yeah or it's the standard line with the set. So that's straight, set or better 2 pair but judging on the way the hand was played I think he has QdTd
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 8:18pm   #5
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These are my stakes. A limper utg prepared to call a raise there has one of three things: a weak suited ace, a pair 22-99 or more rarely suited connectors/one gappers T8s and upwards. Premium hands re-raise 90% of the time if not always. Following Got6Aces' logic, I'd say QTd a possible, as is KJd.

As played, I probably call this river c/r, but then again, I'd have checked behind him on the river in any case. I was corrected when I suggested that for a different hand on another thread, so would those who are much better at establishing value bets on the river like to add something about the $3 river bet from Hero? Value betting the river implies knowing what you would do if asked for the remainder of your chips, no?
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 8:44pm   #6
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Yeah, definetely looked like QT when he pushed. I ended up folding this, figuring he had to at least have two pair. I almost checked behind on the river, but I thought I could get value from a pair because he didn't show strength throughout the whole hand.
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Old Feb 20, 2009, 8:58pm   #7
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I hate b/f on the river when you only have a PSB behind and 2 pair. There isn't enough room in your stack to b/f unless you are completely bluffing and want to make the river bet look like a value bet. With 2-pair you've gotta call this. You're going to lose alot to sets, AJ, etc. but the price is just too good.

Also, as a value bet on the river I like betting more like $5-push. No sense in not getting paid off more here with his lone ace under most circumstances.
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Old Feb 21, 2009, 5:59am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iestyn75 View Post
These are my stakes. A limper utg prepared to call a raise there has one of three things: a weak suited ace, a pair 22-99 or more rarely suited connectors/one gappers T8s and upwards. Premium hands re-raise 90% of the time if not always. Following Got6Aces' logic, I'd say QTd a possible, as is KJd.

As is JTd, KQd, both of which might push a busted draw with a pair. This is actually quite common, where someone calls down hoping for a flush, realizes they have put in so much money, then shove as a last resort to win it back.

As played, I probably call this river c/r, but then again, I'd have checked behind him on the river in any case. I was corrected when I suggested that for a different hand on another thread, so would those who are much better at establishing value bets on the river like to add something about the $3 river bet from Hero? Value betting the river implies knowing what you would do if asked for the remainder of your chips, no?
I wouldn't mind a check behind here so much, especially given stack sizes. Given that hero bet, you can't really fold here. But I don't think we'll get much more from a naked ace or a busted draw, which is certainly a fair part of his range.

But ya, as BM said, if you are going to bet might as well make it more of a push size bet, or a size clearly commiting you to a push, as if you are betting to get a lone ace to call he'll probably call that bet as often as $3, so you'll get more when you are good and lose the same as you would be priced to call if he has you beat.
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Old Feb 21, 2009, 7:33am   #9
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If you bet here you have to bet more than $3. I think making this bet and then folding is pretty bad. I really consider checking here though (not saying I always do this). The only hand to get any value from is AQ (maybe AT but I doubt it). Everything else most likely is folding anyway or had you crushed. And you are way more likely to be crushed than getting value from this hand.
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Old Feb 21, 2009, 7:57am   #10
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I prefer a check/call on the river. Also, if you bet the rriver, bet to commit your stack but you only beat a badly played AQ or AT and lose to a lot of hands.

I prefer a check call all day here, he puts you in with his entire range (which is much wider than his range to shove over your bet or pay you off) and you can snapcall.

As played, you are never good, ever and it's a snapfold (although I often call out of frustration/curiosity at NL10 but that's not a good thing)
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