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Old Feb 27, 2009, 6:23am   #1
TWLLM
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Default 3-bet AK oop

Looking for thoughts on how the AK was played. Assume the two callers are not unreasonable, but other than that, no really big reads on either as there aren't very many hands between the parties.


Table 'Pamina III' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: xxxxx ($148.10 in chips)
Seat 2: xxxxx ($227 in chips)
Seat 3: villain 1 ($203.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Villain 2 ($245 in chips)
Seat 5: xxxxx ($25.30 in chips)
Seat 6: xxxxx ($242.10 in chips)
Seat 7: xxxxx ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Hero ($303.35 in chips)
Seat 9: xxxxx ($204.90 in chips)
xxxxx: posts small blind $1
Hero: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ks Ad]
xxxxx: folds
xxxxx: folds
xxxxx: folds
Villain 1: raises $6 to $8
Villain 2: calls $8
xxxxx: folds
xxxxx: folds
xxxxx: folds
Hero: raises $14 to $22
Villain 1: calls $14
Villain 2: calls $14
*** FLOP *** [4c 7s 9c]
Hero: bets $45
Villain 1: folds
Villain 2: raises $73 to $118
Hero: raises $163.35 to $281.35 and is all-in

Villain 2 is left to decide whether to call all-in for $105 more.


Thoughts? (sorry no hand converter as I'm not a techie nit)
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 6:43am   #2
Ishbu3116
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I like three betting here pf, although I think it is too small. Problem I have is with the C-Bet. I don't like betting into two others here. Another thing is that when someone flat calls twice and then raises it sets off warning bells all over the place for me. Personally I only like the three bet.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 6:49am   #3
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i dont play FR, but a 3bet here is std amirite?

i dont like the cbet much less the shove.. what could he possibly raise the flop followed by folding to a shove while only having a hundred behind? this is even worse without reads imo.

edit: tbh it looks like your folding out bluffs, thats about it.

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Old Feb 27, 2009, 7:00am   #4
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.

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Old Feb 27, 2009, 9:10am   #5
DoubleU
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But really, is he going to fold Jacks after putting in 70 bb's on an undercard flop? I doubt it. I'd go with like $32 pre, probably c/f'ing the flop 3way, and cbetting vs. a single villain based on his tendencies.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 9:43am   #6
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Ugh. A preflop 3b is standard but it's so small you price in absolutely everything and end up with a big pot OOP against 2 callers with poorly defined ranges. I think you're feeling obliged to c-bet but tbh I really think given the action you could justify a c/f here and let them think you just gave up on a squeeze that went bad.

As played with the c-bet I think you really have to give up once you're raised. You have no FE and given the 2x flat call from villain I don't think he raises here for fun.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 1:34pm   #7
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Villain names?

You've repped AA-QQ well. Now its just a matter of whether they fold KK-TT ever. Some will, some won't. A very lot of times, they will flip over a set. Hopefully for your sake, its AcQc or something along those lines.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 1:51pm   #8
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It looks about how I play it. However, I play at a lower level and am barely able to break even... So I am really trying to figure out the proper way to think through these types of hands at higher limits (where it can be assumed that the players are not comatose like they are at my levels).

That being said, I think you represent KK or AA here with the way you play it. The question becomes will people still call this re-raise all in with hands that you are trying to bluff? This is really read dependent, as it would be nice to know that the person you are essentially bluffing is able to make the fold. Obviously AA and KK are going to be calling. Any semi-bluff reraise (AK, AQ) is folding. I know facing the action, I am probably calling with QQ here some of the time. I probably even call with Jacks but that is because this kind of action doesn't really mean a lot on some of the tables at my level. That is pretty much the range here other then a possible set-mine that caught, which is obv. calling.

Is it totally wrong to think that the person who is calling and not raising pf has something like a medium high pocket pair (88-TT), and he was just going to try and take down the pot on the flop with a c/r of the original bettor's cbet, and then was tempted to call pre-flop hoping to hit the set that would most likely win a large pot given the pre-flop action? Or is 88-TT completely out of his range?

So I would put his range pre-flop on AA (trying to get cute with it, which I don't really like), KK (which also was playing cute, which I would assume less likely given the weakness KK has on and A flopped board in a 3-way contested pot, QQ (weakly played but starting to make more sense), JJ (overpair to the board is worth the flop raise and makes the most sense to me), TT-88 (mostly set-mining and not sure if valid), AK and if loose AQ, and then I would give a stardard player a chance that they were getting cute with a suited connector trying to change things up.

That is a pretty small range. AA-QQ is calling. JJ is pretty likely to call (although they don't like it). TT folds most of the time, 99 insta snap calls, 88 folds. AK and AQ folds. Suited Connectors/Bluff have to fold.

Is this range of hands realistic?
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 2:13pm   #9
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Lol at villain giving a shit about what you're repping - he's put in 60% of his stack against the PFR and is getting 4:1 on the call. He's not folding.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 2:33pm   #10
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fold to raise post flop you got nothing theres nothing you can do but save your money
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