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Old Feb 27, 2009, 4:39pm   #11
Red4Eva
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Originally Posted by Mr Beaks View Post
Lol at villain giving a shit about what you're repping - he's put in 60% of his stack against the PFR and is getting 4:1 on the call. He's not folding.
seriously, plus hero has no real idea if villain is even a thinking player or not. pretty spewy overall if you ask me.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 5:51pm   #12
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Ok, let's refine the question. I agree the 3-bet oop was too small pf.

Let's look only at the flop play - what is the hero putting villain 2 on if we're 3-bet/shoving this flop over his flop raise? What does his flop raise represent? Is there any good reason for this play or is it pure spew?
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 5:58pm   #13
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Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
Ok, let's refine the question. I agree the 3-bet oop was too small pf.

Let's look only at the flop play - what is the hero putting villain 2 on if we're 3-bet/shoving this flop over his flop raise? What does his flop raise represent? Is there any good reason for this play or is it pure spew?
If it was against one player, I'd say it was a pretty good play. You will often get raised on c-bets on these all low card boards, especially cause a lot of your range consists of overcards that didn't hit.

The thing is, this guy is raising your bet into 2 people in a 3 bet pot, so chances are good he is on at least an overpair. Because we had two callers pf, the pot is so bloated he is getting great odds on calling this all in with overpairs, just given the chance you have AK/AQ.

So without a read it's borderline spewy. It isn't a terrible play by any means (imo, a reasonable player could probably fold TT-JJ and another AK), but I'd rather check here.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 6:02pm   #14
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Originally Posted by Mr Beaks View Post
Lol at villain giving a shit about what you're repping - he's put in 60% of his stack against the PFR and is getting 4:1 on the call. He's not folding.

at last someone said it

The best part was: if they are thinking villains perhaps they will fold JJ or something. hmmm.... No ? Whos bad enough to raise fold jacks there on the flop? Good players wont do it because its so bad and fishes will raise call because they like to call

I pretty much hate every actions or bet sizing in that hand.
Execpt vs low stacks, I see no reasons ever to 3bet that small OOP with any hands at all, especially vs a caller.
And sometimes, its OK to give up on flop lol

It would still be spewy and somewhat bad, but better, if he had to call 180+... hes probably not folding 78 for christs sake.. and he probably shouldnt after raising it. Obv he never has 78 but you get what I mean

And its the second villain who called recalled PF... A HUGE majority of players will NEVER bluff in that spot without any momentum in a hand, so at best he has a draw and never folding or he has a pair and never folding, or he has bottom set, put you on a higher set and folds. But its rare
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Last edited by Gus; Feb 27, 2009 at 6:06pm.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 6:13pm   #15
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Okay, let me add some more info. There's not much in the way of player specific reads, but 1/2nl full ring on stars is pretty nitty, especially compared to shorthanded games at the same stakes.

So assume this game has like an average pot of $20 and a flop seen % of say, 15%, and that it is highly highly rare for people to call 3-bets preflop, and even more rare that people will get it all-in on the flop. Would it make you more or less likely to shove over the top of villain 2's raise?


Discuss please.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 6:14pm   #16
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Yeah, looks like a bad repop any ways. I freeze up with AK OOP in a multi-way pot when I miss. The pot is usually too big to be worth bluffing as you are much more likely to get called.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 7:12pm   #17
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Originally Posted by TJTay89 View Post
Is this range of hands realistic?
All pairs should be included in the range. With two callers in facing a small 3bet, no small pair folds.


Twllm, who are the players specifically?
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 7:37pm   #18
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Originally Posted by Mr Beaks View Post
Lol at villain giving a shit about what you're repping - he's put in 60% of his stack against the PFR and is getting 4:1 on the call. He's not folding.
!!!!!
It would be atrocious to raise/fold jacks here anyway.
This hand is obviously pure spew.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 7:48pm   #19
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Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
Would it make you more or less likely to shove over the top of villain 2's raise?


Discuss please.
well it would make it even worst imo.

The guy is almost never bluffing there
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 9:03pm   #20
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Interesed to see how this turns out. I have played this hand alot of times like this only while holding AA/KK and my opponent has folded (or called with a draw). To be clear I wouldnt play AK this way, but I have always wondered what they had to raise fold in hands like this.


Keep playing this way and you will lose the nit lable for good
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