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Old May 06, 2009, 4:32pm   #1
123money321
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Default Table Image Help

Hey guys, I want help with my live poker table image at casinos. I am 19 years old, and look like I'm 17. Minimum age is 19 where I live, and most of the guys Im playing with are middle aged. I am a small guy, and here's whats happened so far.

I never say much, I don't play too many hands, and since I'm small and young, I get bullied around. However, this has paid off for me in the past when I slow play big hands.

I am wondering if you guys have any other opinions on how to improve my table image and become more profitable. What to wear, should I engage in conversation? etc etc. Thanks guys!

Jared.
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Old May 06, 2009, 4:56pm   #2
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First of all, you signed up in 2004 and you're 19 now... nice... . I don't remember if there's an explicit age requirement in the T&Cs, but if there is, congradulations on violating it and getting away with it. I'm also going to go out on a limb and guess your signature was created when you were like 14 or whatever, lol!

Second, what is the problem? You just said you've figured out how to use your image to your advantage (trapping people) - as long as people are playing predictably against you, keep abusing it - changing your table image would be a bad idea because then you couldn't utilize your opponents' predictability against them. And changing your game completely is unlikely to be *more* profitable than making marginal adjustments on an already winning approach.

Third, your 'image' issues are based on your body size and apperance - how can you expect to change this in the short term? Wear a disguise? Pull a Phil Laak and dress up like a middle-aged or elderly man?

I guess a long-term solution would be to wait for the effects of time (aging), and/or work on 'bulking up' so you don't look so small. Again, though, these aren't short-term solutions.

Talking is usually a bad idea unless you're *very* good at using it to extract info (which is very rare, so unless you're sure you are good at it, you're probably not - its fine though, most of us aren't any good at it, myself included).


By the way, if you don't mind me asking, where are you playing? Blue Heron, Rama, Niagara, Windsor, Brantford??? Or somewhere, uh... 'unofficial?'
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Old May 06, 2009, 6:57pm   #3
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What ^ he said above. Also I would be more concerned with reading other people and making decisions based on that. For example if you see the passive middle aged women who has only check called every hand she's been in and she leads out a small bet on an ace rag board. You better believe she hit the ace. Look for similar obvious tells and go from there.

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Old May 06, 2009, 8:57pm   #4
123money321
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haha yea I have been playing poker since I was young, paid my way through highschool and didn't need a job, now that I'm of age things are changing because I'm playing more live casino games and the stakes are higher.

I'm playing at rama, I like going friday and saturday nights because there are more drunks and gamblers than there are poker players.

And I'm not really sure what I was asking I guess. I just wasn't sure if getting bullied around is the most profitable thing I could be doing. I mean its been paying off so far, but I'm wondering if the "drunk loud 19 year old" me might be a little more profitable than the quiet tight small me.

I guess since I'm not your typical casino poker player, I want to make the most out of my table image while I can.
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Old May 06, 2009, 11:55pm   #5
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Also

Has anyone ever successfully pulled off the "new to poker" image before? Like not putting in enough to meet the BB and not knowing when its your turn and things like that? It requires acting but I wonder if its profitable...
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Old May 07, 2009, 5:58am   #6
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haha yea I have been playing poker since I was young, paid my way through highschool
LOL @ 'paying your way' through highschool. WTF were you emancipated or something? Paying your way through college/university is a different matter, highschool is free and your parents are legally obligated to provide you with the necessaries of life (at least for most of it depending on your age). I know what you mean but it's just too rich to call it 'paying my way through highschool'. Especially given you're from Whitby - last time I checked Whitby had one of the highest median household incomes in the country and very little in the way of poverty/working class neighbourhoods - Oshawa (where I grew up) on the other hand... has a high income but definitely has more 'ghettos' to it... lol.


In response to the substance of your last two posts, being drunk and obnoxious isn't likely to get you very far. TBH, most recreational players would rather play someone who is a 'push over' in their eyes, than a jackass. And the few good players will start gunning for you - they probably see you as 'meh' right now (not a threat, not an ATM either) but you open yourself up more the more you act out at the table.

There's also the fact that, long-term, you should be looking for things other than poker while at the poker table. For instance, I'm sure a lot of business and other things are conducted over the poker table - even on friday and saturday nights. As you get older, you might want to be able to utilize your reputation and/or your connections to the other regulars - playing the part of a drunken fool because you're speculating it might get you more $ is not only foolhardy in terms of EV, it's counter-productive in terms of the other things live poker can bring. Granted, if you're only 19 it's not relevant yet, but if you plan to do anything productive with your life you might see it as important down the road - it's perhaps speculative, but given the very minimal value of 'acting out', it's worth considering.

There's also the potential for home game/private game invites, and no one wants to invite an obnoxious player - unless they're a *total* fish, obviously - to their private game.


In terms of the "new to poker" routine, it might work when you're in vegas and have 20 different poker rooms within 3 blocks of each other and you can move around between all of them without anyone remembering you. With a single, regular casino, you can't do this. The regulars won't fall for it because they'll know you already, and the 'drunks' as you call them, don't care if you're new or not - they're drunks, they're playing randomly as it is. They probably can't post their blinds either.


All joking aside, my guess is your 'winnings' aren't that great because you're focusing on the wrong things - instead of worrying about your image and/or 'appearance' in the physical sense, you should work on improving your game, identifying betting patterns, and other, game-based avenues to profit. This goes doubly when you're playing in games with drunk morons - they're more easily exploited by good play than by verbal and physical ploys. Against super tough competition it might be a different story, but you said you're playing morons.


BTW, what kinds of stakes are you playing at rama? Is this the 2-5nl game, or are we talking about the high-stakes backroom stuff? I'm assuming you're playing the front-room 2-5 and maybe 5-10nl, not some crazy backroom games I've heard about (years ago, mind you). If it's very high stakes, take everything with a larger grain of salt because in those games you're more likely to need to be creative than in a standard low/mid buying nlhe game. I haven't been to Rama in a long time so I don't know what they're spreading these days.
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Originally Posted by DoubleU
Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old May 07, 2009, 6:15am   #7
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Rama has only 1/2 NL , 2/5NL and 2/5 Limit

It doesnt matter what your table image is in these games
Just wait until they give you money
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Old May 07, 2009, 6:42am   #8
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Ill try some actual advice.
Dont worry about your actual physical appearance.

Build a loose aggresive image but actually play solid.

In these games there will be a lot of good squeeze spots.
Like someone will raise to $20 and 5 people will call.
Three bet to like $110 with whatever and show.

These kind of plays will be "unheard of" to them
Rama NL plays like the internet pokers did 8 years ago


When I play there I do go for the drunken fool routine. But its usually because im actually drunk
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Old May 07, 2009, 3:55pm   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr View Post
Rama has only 1/2 NL , 2/5NL and 2/5 Limit

It doesnt matter what your table image is in these games
Just wait until they give you money
You never fail to amaze me Joey. I thought you were in the US, and if so, why in the world would you be playing at Rama? You, sir, have to be some kind of superhero capable of travel at the speed of light (with the same powers that allow you to scoop as a 95% dog in PLO on a regular basis ). Smart, fast, fealess and fortuitous... truly 1/TWLLM.


All joking aside, Rama not even spreading 5/10, 10/20, 20/40 minbet any more? Shows how long it's been since I was there - back when I last played, the most popular games were minbet. I remember 10/20 minbet in Southern Ontario's casinos well... It's like a Nam flash back for me, so young, so ignorant, so... very, very wrong.


The higher limit games I was alluding to, were not public games going on at Rama, they were 'private' games going on behind the curtains as it were. I only heard about these 5+ years ago. But as long as that's not what we're talking about, I think the advice we've given is fine - I just can't speak to high-stakes backroom games is all.
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Oh, and obviously, TWLLM, we'd all rather you just ruled with an iron fist of nittiness and made all decisions without consultation, but that goes without saying, right?
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Old May 07, 2009, 4:11pm   #10
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Trash talk the alpha male types inbetween hands if and only if you're a TAG; it riles them up and they get far too stationy and bluff to much against you. I can't count the number of guys I have stacked because they want to look macho and are afraid of me mocking them if I show a bluff to the table after engaging the alphas in trash talk. So they call three streets with top pair no kicker and I table my set/2p/whatever

Definitely be the Negreanu style friend to any women at the table who are casual players; it means they will play far too passively against you and won't extract value when they make hands/you can easily get away from aggression since they ALWAYS have it. Guilt them into cheap showdowns when you want it by talking about it being a friendly table etc.

If there are drunk guys spewing $, be friendly/loud with them, they will stay longer if they're having fun and are more likely to give you action if they're there to gambooool as opposed to a nit who is no fun = you get their money more often
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