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Old Sep 20, 2009, 2:20pm   #1
JoshuaSit
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Default Does every Tourney Turn Pushbot???

So Sunday Same 4.40 Im 5,800 Bl-150/300 A:25


So i have fell under 20 BB....each hand someone is Standard raising..Are they blind thieving?

When should I make my move???

Wait for button?

I would really love to make money~~~

I'm currently 22 out of 33 need to make 18

Do i go aggressive?

Is someone paying attention gonna read my LAG and top me out?
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Old Oct 09, 2009, 2:42pm   #2
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1. Sometimes.
2. When a combination of your hand strength and tournament equity make the risk/reward balance worthwhile. Don't think of it so much as making your move, though. Your opponents aren't making most of their mistakes by raise/folding.
3. Position is generally good, though in the later stages of tournaments it's often because you are raising/pushing into fewer people, thus requiring less hand strength (this makes pushing any two from the sb vs bb profitable in certain situations).
4. Aggressive poker is generally winning poker. That said, you really need to pick your spots.
5. I don't understand the question, but opponents are going to call a lot at these levels regardless.

If you plan on spending much time playing tournaments, you really need to research ICM. Download a program called SNG Wizard and review it a ton. The factors become less clear when dealing with more players in a tournament/deeper stacks/different payout structures, but doing so will give you a decent understanding of the basic factors that make your decisions good in a tournament.
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Old Oct 09, 2009, 2:57pm   #3
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pushbotting right makes at least 90% of your overall equity in tourneys.

It is the key fact to win in the long term. Even if you don't know any hand values you can cash in tourneys with a correct pushbotting strategy.

Google kill/fill strategy. It was Phil Gordon (???) at first who take a non poker player and gives him only 2 moves: All-In and Fold. According to the relative stacksizes he told the player which hands he should push and which one he should fold.

With the right hands this strategy has a positive ROI at least in the low stakes...
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Old Oct 09, 2009, 3:11pm   #4
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I want to say that was Sklansky with "The System."
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Old Oct 09, 2009, 11:51pm   #5
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I think the shove fold is from the book "Kill Phil". (maybe some other book mentioned the same idea before this - but the whole kill phil book is based on the idea).

I have a copy bought with FPP ... but never read much of it.
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Old Oct 10, 2009, 12:23am   #6
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Aw. So young.

Yes, poker strategy didn't exist until 2005.

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Old Oct 10, 2009, 6:01am   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaSit View Post
So Sunday Same 4.40 Im 5,800 Bl-150/300 A:25


So i have fell under 20 BB....each hand someone is Standard raising..Are they blind thieving? ? How should we know what they have? They may be, they may just have shiny cards that go raise. Either way, give them credit unless you have reason otherwise.

When should I make my move??? First, it isn't a move. The reason for a push/fold strategy isn't because you are making any moves, it's because once your stack drops below a certain point you no longer will have enough of a stack to play post flop. If that is the case, you might as well maximize your fold equity by shoving pf. It is math based: You think about your hand strength against how many people are left to act/previous action before you, and make an educated guess on how often you'll be called. Essentially, the later position you are in with having action unopened to you, the better your odds that the random hands people are given will be worse than yours/folded, so you can raise with a wider range.

Wait for button? No. You can open shove from UTG if your hand is strong enough and your stack is low enough. Again, it depends on a number of factors that you should learn and remember.

I would really love to make money~~~ You aren't alone there.

I'm currently 22 out of 33 need to make 18 Why? So you can make 1.20? You'll find your ROI% much better if you don't play for making the money, and instead play for cashing bigger. That is just how tournament structures work, they are top heavy. So aim for the top, and don't sweat it when you go out in 19th.

Do i go aggressive? Yes and no. You will inherently get more theoretical profit out of raising/shoving than simply calling, due to fold equity. If your hand is only a 60% favorite over someone else than if you have 10BB your EV is 2BB at a 40% chance you are out of the tourney, as opposed to 1.5BB with no risk to your tourney life. However, this doesn't mean you shouldn't call if your equity is good against your opponents, especially if they are short stacked and you are not.

Is someone paying attention gonna read my LAG and top me out? Maybe, but if you don't shove every hand and only on occasion what you'll find is that people don't adjust near as much as you think they do. Even if they do adjust, the beauty of a good push/fold strat is that their counter is to play correctly against you, which is still folding hands they think are behind/equal to your range and calling hands ahead. The only thing that may change is your perceived range, which you can make small adjustments to if need be.
I've seen you make a ton of posts about push/fold strategy, and my recommendation would be to not try to memorize when/what you should shove/fold, but to get poker stove, play around with some ranges and do the math. You'll find that if your opponents are only calling 22+ AT+ or something to that effect, that is only about 10% of hands. That means with 2 players left to act (on the button when it's unopened) they will both fold is .9*.9 thus 81%. This means you can shove with a fairly wide range, and even if when you get called it's -ev by a small margin, you'll be +ev in the long run due to picking up the blinds so often.

So notes :
Push/fold = optimal when you end up with a low stack relative to the blinds. I usually do this around 12-15 BB depending on action at the table. This is simply due to lack of flexibility post flop and the effectiveness of fold equity.

Position dependent, but not necessarily waiting for the button.

Don't aim to make the money, aim to cash big. Your profit will vastly increase if you don't turn into a turtle every time the bubble approaches.

Be aggressive with pushing, but not stupidly so. Know why you are making the move you are making, not because a book says that hand is good for shoving pf.

People may adjust, but probably not as much as you think.

Hopefully that wasn't too hard to read/understand. If you have questions let me know.

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Old Oct 10, 2009, 6:17am   #8
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Since your post seems to have a lot of replies, i'll keep mine short.

Does every tourney turn pushbot? No, although most non deepstack events do. Learn to pushbot and you'll be fine. If you only like playing deep, there are a few deepstacked tournaments available, mostly on Stars
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Old Oct 10, 2009, 10:42am   #9
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It's ALLLIIIIIVE!!!
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Old Nov 18, 2009, 11:51am   #10
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Default Does every Tourney Turn Pushbot

I currently do strength training 3 days a week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I want to add some additional karate practice, mostly basics.

I was thinking doing every technique 10-20 times on days im not doing strength training.

Does anyone else do anything similar?
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