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Old Oct 08, 2009, 1:28am   #1
darryl
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Default When to fold KK preflop live

So for the first time that I can remember, my kings ran into aces preflop live.

I'm just wondering if there is ever a time in a live game to fold them preflop without some sort of incredible read.

FWIW NL 200, I was in late position with about $250, there was one limper, I raised to $10 (I could have raised more here, but no matter), Dealer reraises to $20, it's folded back to me, I raise to $60 and she pushes (has me covered)

I know I couldn't have folded here even though a minreraise live preflop at these stakes is just about always aces.

-d
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 1:31am   #2
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you should never get into this spot. when you suspect someone is really strong pf, dont put in the raise that allows them to put you allin. Like don't raise to $60 if you are not willing to get allin.
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 6:00am   #3
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only folded KK pf once and it was live.

biggest nit in the world at 2/5 limps UTG on a straddle. i raise to 65$ on the BB and he goes AI for 700$~ more lol. I flipped my KK over and told him if he has AK to show me one ace and i'll fold. he showed me one, i folded and then he showed me the other one (ace). Some guy asked him why he showed the first ace and he responded "I know what its like to be grinding out some cash as a youngin" and then he winked at me, lol.

good times
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 6:38am   #4
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I don't care for the fold in the OP.

Only time I've folded KK preflop live:

$1500 event at this year's WSOP. Blinds 25/50 most of us have ~4500. UTG raises to 150. I'm UTG+1 and re-raise to 450. Folds to boring, middle-aged looking guy in middle position who makes it 1,500. Folds back to me and I'm fairly sure there's no way on Earth he can re-raise after watching UTG and UTG+1 three-bet the pot while holding anything but Ace-Ace. I muck face-up with a laugh, he gets kind of a surprised look on his face and mucks face down. Oh well... still like 90% sure it was the right fold.
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 12:54pm   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleBoy View Post
you should never get into this spot. when you suspect someone is really strong pf, dont put in the raise that allows them to put you allin. Like don't raise to $60 if you are not willing to get allin.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

ahhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

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Old Oct 08, 2009, 1:00pm   #6
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Originally Posted by darryl View Post
I'm just wondering if there is ever a time in a live game to fold them preflop without some sort of incredible read.
The answer is obviously no, but incredible reads are one of those things incredible players can do, if their opponent cooperates.

In eight years as a professional, I've only folded KK preflop in ring games three times. twice live and once online. In tournaments this kind of crap is standard, folding aces is a rite of passage.

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Old Oct 08, 2009, 1:42pm   #7
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Thanks all. I just couldn't see folding. I guess it was bound to happen at some point.

BTW the opponent was a regular that I've played with maybe once before. I would say her style is somewhere in between TAG and LP. So I put her on exactly AA, AK or QQ. If it was JJ, I think she would have reraised me more.

Really I think I posted just to vent off some steam.

-d
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 4:39pm   #8
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This is a good time for one of my rambling stories from years ago.

Playing live, £1/2 half pot limit dealer's choice (the only game running at 5am). For some reason someone has chosen hold'em instead of double flop six card omaha or five card pineapple. The only other professional in the game is on my right and raises to £6, with KK I reraise to £14. On my left is a strong reg who plays a fair number of hands but plays them well, he is capable of showing up with literally anything in any situation. He is dangerous[tm] and raises to £30. Folded back around to me, I call, and the flop comes 653 rainbow. I check, dangerous[tm] bets £35 and I checkraise to £100. His posture changes slightly and he appears surprised and confused, then the slightest twitch at the corner of his mouth and shake of his head as if he's saying "nah, it can't be". He reraises all in for another £50.

The pot stands at over £300, I'm getting roughly 6.5:1 on the call. I only have to be good abut 13% of the time. We reconstruct the action, his fourbet in 3rd position narrows his range but there will still be some unusual hands in there, this is the antithesis of an ABC player who is not afraid of i know that he knows that i know that he knows situations. His final raise committed £115, a substantial bet on the flop in a half pot limit game. Is he still breathing normally? Yes, bugger. He's a chatty kind of guy though, lets invite him to say something, "What is that? fifty five?" "Fifty". hmm. Legs are steady, hands are steady, face shows no signs of stress. Fuck he actually does have aces. He moves around a little, probably thinking about what I'm thinking about. I begin cutting my chips, no reaction. I take another look at my cards, lifting them a little too high off the felt - everyone knows this suggests a fold is coming. No reaction. Fuck it. I turn them over, no reaction. I'm pretty much out of tricks at this point, only one left, dejected I pick up the ten £5 chips "Well, I guess..." and flick my cards into the muck.

"Ace of spades, ace of hearts". He shows me two red aces. Worst misread of my career.

Kc
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 10:10pm   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
This is a good time for one of my rambling stories from years ago.

Playing live, £1/2 half pot limit dealer's choice (the only game running at 5am). For some reason someone has chosen hold'em instead of double flop six card omaha or five card pineapple. The only other professional in the game is on my right and raises to £6, with KK I reraise to £14. On my left is a strong reg who plays a fair number of hands but plays them well, he is capable of showing up with literally anything in any situation. He is dangerous[tm] and raises to £30. Folded back around to me, I call, and the flop comes 653 rainbow. I check, dangerous[tm] bets £35 and I checkraise to £100. His posture changes slightly and he appears surprised and confused, then the slightest twitch at the corner of his mouth and shake of his head as if he's saying "nah, it can't be". He reraises all in for another £50.

The pot stands at over £300, I'm getting roughly 6.5:1 on the call. I only have to be good abut 13% of the time. We reconstruct the action, his fourbet in 3rd position narrows his range but there will still be some unusual hands in there, this is the antithesis of an ABC player who is not afraid of i know that he knows that i know that he knows situations. His final raise committed £115, a substantial bet on the flop in a half pot limit game. Is he still breathing normally? Yes, bugger. He's a chatty kind of guy though, lets invite him to say something, "What is that? fifty five?" "Fifty". hmm. Legs are steady, hands are steady, face shows no signs of stress. Fuck he actually does have aces. He moves around a little, probably thinking about what I'm thinking about. I begin cutting my chips, no reaction. I take another look at my cards, lifting them a little too high off the felt - everyone knows this suggests a fold is coming. No reaction. Fuck it. I turn them over, no reaction. I'm pretty much out of tricks at this point, only one left, dejected I pick up the ten £5 chips "Well, I guess..." and flick my cards into the muck.

"Ace of spades, ace of hearts". He shows me two red aces. Worst misread of my career.

Kc

ha haha hahahah hahaha
haha
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Old Oct 10, 2009, 3:37am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
This is a good time for one of my rambling stories from years ago.

Playing live, £1/2 half pot limit dealer's choice (the only game running at 5am). For some reason someone has chosen hold'em instead of double flop six card omaha or five card pineapple. The only other professional in the game is on my right and raises to £6, with KK I reraise to £14. On my left is a strong reg who plays a fair number of hands but plays them well, he is capable of showing up with literally anything in any situation. He is dangerous[tm] and raises to £30. Folded back around to me, I call, and the flop comes 653 rainbow. I check, dangerous[tm] bets £35 and I checkraise to £100. His posture changes slightly and he appears surprised and confused, then the slightest twitch at the corner of his mouth and shake of his head as if he's saying "nah, it can't be". He reraises all in for another £50.

The pot stands at over £300, I'm getting roughly 6.5:1 on the call. I only have to be good abut 13% of the time. We reconstruct the action, his fourbet in 3rd position narrows his range but there will still be some unusual hands in there, this is the antithesis of an ABC player who is not afraid of i know that he knows that i know that he knows situations. His final raise committed £115, a substantial bet on the flop in a half pot limit game. Is he still breathing normally? Yes, bugger. He's a chatty kind of guy though, lets invite him to say something, "What is that? fifty five?" "Fifty". hmm. Legs are steady, hands are steady, face shows no signs of stress. Fuck he actually does have aces. He moves around a little, probably thinking about what I'm thinking about. I begin cutting my chips, no reaction. I take another look at my cards, lifting them a little too high off the felt - everyone knows this suggests a fold is coming. No reaction. Fuck it. I turn them over, no reaction. I'm pretty much out of tricks at this point, only one left, dejected I pick up the ten £5 chips "Well, I guess..." and flick my cards into the muck.

"Ace of spades, ace of hearts". He shows me two red aces. Worst misread of my career.

Kc
has to be a level lol

flat the flop please if your serious
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