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Old Jan 15, 2010, 7:35pm   #1
ElKabong
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Default Badly played hand

Seat 1: eric_adams ($49.25)
Seat 2: satsuna17 ($37.90)
Seat 3: ClElephant ($43.15)
Seat 4: HERO ($16.60)
Seat 5: jeeerooomme ($14.66)
Seat 6: Ibrahim1951 ($29.9
satsuna17 posts the small blind of $0.25
ClElephant posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Kh Ah]
HERO raises to $1.00
jeeerooomme calls $1.00
Ibrahim1951 raises to $1.50
eric_adams folds
satsuna17 calls $1.25
ClElephant folds
HERO raises to $2.00
jeeerooomme calls $1.00
Ibrahim1951 raises to $2.50
satsuna17 calls $1.00
HERO calls $0.50
jeeerooomme calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [2s 5h Kd]
satsuna17 checks
HERO bets $0.50
jeeerooomme calls $0.50
Ibrahim1951 raises to $1.00
satsuna17 calls $1.00
HERO calls $0.50
jeeerooomme calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [Qd]
satsuna17 checks
HERO checks
jeeerooomme checks
Ibrahim1951 checks
*** RIVER *** [Qs]
satsuna17 checks
HERO bets $1.00
jeeerooomme raises to $2.00
Ibrahim1951 folds
satsuna17 calls $2.00
HERO calls $1.00

Loose table preflop, impossible to get people to fold in the flop. Ibrahim1951 could raise preflop with suited connectors and assorted crap, but this was the first time he capped.
After a million bad beats when people just kept calling the with 4 outs or less I started to play a bit more passive on the flop. I so hate bad beat friday. I was going to check raise the turn but that backfired. I think I should've reraised the flop at least, not that anyone would fold at this table anyway, but I probably was ahead.
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 12:09am   #2
LimpIn
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Isn't that one bet more than standard pre-flop or am I too drunk to read properly?
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 9:59am   #3
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Originally Posted by ElKabong View Post
Seat 1: eric_adams ($49.25)
Seat 2: satsuna17 ($37.90)
Seat 3: ClElephant ($43.15)
Seat 4: HERO ($16.60)
Seat 5: jeeerooomme ($14.66)
Seat 6: Ibrahim1951 ($29.9
satsuna17 posts the small blind of $0.25
ClElephant posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Kh Ah]
HERO raises to $1.00
jeeerooomme calls $1.00
Ibrahim1951 raises to $1.50
eric_adams folds
satsuna17 calls $1.25
ClElephant folds
HERO raises to $2.00
jeeerooomme calls $1.00
Ibrahim1951 raises to $2.50
satsuna17 calls $1.00
HERO calls $0.50
jeeerooomme calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [2s 5h Kd]
satsuna17 checks
HERO bets $0.50
jeeerooomme calls $0.50
Ibrahim1951 raises to $1.00
satsuna17 calls $1.00
HERO calls $0.50
jeeerooomme calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [Qd]
satsuna17 checks
HERO checks
jeeerooomme checks
Ibrahim1951 checks
*** RIVER *** [Qs]
satsuna17 checks
HERO bets $1.00
jeeerooomme raises to $2.00
Ibrahim1951 folds
satsuna17 calls $2.00
HERO calls $1.00
certainly looks like jerome has a queen or a small set. satsuna probably has a bad king, KTish kinda range. against the right player you can hero fold the river, but i doubt you're ever going to run into that player at 50/1.

ibrahim's capping pre and raising the flop looks like aces or kings, but from this hand alone we can tell he's a spanner, presumably he's done other spannerish things that lead us down the path of not needing to give him credit. he'll get aces or kings once every ~100 hands, but will do something spastic far more often.

your AK isn't particularly vulnerable; it's tough for anyone to hang around with a 5 or a 2, which means unless someone already has a set or AA, they have at most 3 outs against you because there are no valid draws out there. whether to reraise the flop is really about deciding how likely it is you're already beat.

you seem to have come to the right conclusion; he's more likely to be full of shit than full of aces. whether i'd reraise the flop or checkraise the turn depends on all that who are the players how is the table playing shit. both ideas are valid, but i think i'd be more inclined to push on the flop because it will make it easier for the other guys in the pot to hang around with their <10% equity holdings.

i might change my mind about this one later, it's kooky and i haven't had my wake up drugs yet.

Quote:
After a million bad beats when people just kept calling the with 4 outs or less I started to play a bit more passive on the flop
obviously this is not the way to go

Kc
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Old Jan 16, 2010, 8:44pm   #4
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I'd 3-bet the flop here, there are plenty of worse hands he raises for value and there's only one combo of KK. Sure you're drawing pretty slim vs AA but the pot's big and you're caught exactly the type of flop you want.
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Old Jan 17, 2010, 12:41pm   #5
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I'd 3-bet the flop here, there are plenty of worse hands he raises for value and there's only one combo of KK. Sure you're drawing pretty slim vs AA but the pot's big and you're caught exactly the type of flop you want.
the flop isn't always the place to raise for value, heads up it's often clearly better to make the raise on the turn and get an extra small bet (1+4+2>2+2+2). in a multiway pot, it's more complicated because you want to keep dead hands in the pot and they won't always hang around when they see a checkraise on the turn, even if they're only calling one bet at a time.

if you reraise the flop and bet the turn and river, if 2 guys call down, you get 14 bets in from them postflop. if you flat the flop, checkraise the turn and bet the river you get 16 bets from them. But if the guy in the middle folds to the turn checkraise, you only get 10-12 bets in from them. Finally, if you go for the checkraise and there's no bet, you only get 8 bets in by showdown even if both guys call the river.

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Old Jan 17, 2010, 1:56pm   #6
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Agreed, in fact it's mainly because the pot's multiway I want to get the action in fast. If we're HU I like calling and popping the turn.
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Old Jan 17, 2010, 7:49pm   #7
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Agreed, in fact it's mainly because the pot's multiway I want to get the action in fast. If we're HU I like calling and popping the turn.
right, but your focus was on the raiser, not the dead money

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Old Jan 17, 2010, 11:21pm   #8
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LimpIn: It is, but Everest has a five sb cap preflop.

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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
certainly looks like jerome has a queen or a small set. satsuna probably has a bad king, KTish kinda range. against the right player you can hero fold the river, but i doubt you're ever going to run into that player at 50/1.
That player sure wasn't at this table AQ for jerome and KJ for satsuna i believe. Too tired and hung over too bother looking it up

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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
ibrahim's capping pre and raising the flop looks like aces or kings, but from this hand alone we can tell he's a spanner, presumably he's done other spannerish things that lead us down the path of not needing to give him credit. he'll get aces or kings once every ~100 hands, but will do something spastic far more often.
And just what is a spanner? I can guess from the context, but there might be more to it.

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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
you seem to have come to the right conclusion; he's more likely to be full of shit than full of aces. whether i'd reraise the flop or checkraise the turn depends on all that who are the players how is the table playing shit. both ideas are valid, but i think i'd be more inclined to push on the flop because it will make it easier for the other guys in the pot to hang around with their <10% equity holdings.
I thought about it the other way around. Mostly from being a bit on tilt and not wanting another bad beat. A checkraise on the might drive someone instead of letting them draw me out. Not so likely on this table though, but why complain with 5 outs against me.

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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously this is not the way to go
Obviously, but then again, I'd rather tilt that way than becoming axe-wielding homicidal maniac I knew I was on tilt a bit too, but i thought the 60% flops seen was too good to pass up.
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 2:46am   #9
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That player sure wasn't at this table AQ for jerome and KJ for satsuna i believe. Too tired and hung over too bother looking it up
So dead on the money.

You should win double any time you nail your opponent's hand.

Quote:
And just what is a spanner? I can guess from the context, but there might be more to it.
a spanner is a tool. but while both spanner and tool are insults, they are different insults. if i was a linguistics student, this would be my dissertation

a spanner is someone who fucks things up. urban dictionary offers "spanner in the works" by way of etymology, but i suspect it's a euphemistic not-quite-sounds-like spacka.

Quote:
I thought about it the other way around. Mostly from being a bit on tilt and not wanting another bad beat. A checkraise on the might drive someone instead of letting them draw me out. Not so likely on this table though, but why complain with 5 outs against me.
you should probably take a break when you get into this kind of mindset, because you're shitting off value in every direction.

Quote:
Obviously, but then again, I'd rather tilt that way than becoming axe-wielding homicidal maniac I knew I was on tilt a bit too, but i thought the 60% flops seen was too good to pass up.
so long as your A or B or C or whatever letter you're playing at the moment game is better than the game, you're profitable. the problem is that you have less of a cushion before you slip into being unprofitable.

key skills for a poker player:

1a. hand reading ability
1b. steam control
2. everything else

Kc
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 10:30am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
a spanner is someone who fucks things up. urban dictionary offers "spanner in the works" by way of etymology, but i suspect it's a euphemistic not-quite-sounds-like spacka.
Always nice to learn more insults. Spacka was new too, but google is my friend.

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you should probably take a break when you get into this kind of mindset, because you're shitting off value in every direction.
I usually play two hour sessions or so, unless I'm in a tournament, so I avoid it most of the time. This time, however, I played way too long and got out way too late. At least I'm tilting way less than before.
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