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Old Jan 26, 2010, 1:55am   #11
killcrazy
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wtf are you threebetting?

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Old Jan 26, 2010, 7:26am   #12
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wtf are you threebetting?

Kc
As I said approximately 77+. ATs+. AJo (Some), AQo+, KQo, KQs, KJs (Some) assuming I'm in LP vs a 3 off the button raise. Pretty standard 3-bet range vs 3 off the button in today's games by all accounts, if anything a little tight. (Equilator says I should 3-bet ATo but I disagree)

Move the open raiser to the CO and me to the button and you're probably talking top 20% of hands or so I'll 3-bet.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 12:06pm   #13
killcrazy
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hmm. too much IMO. i note anyone who threebets medium pairs as standard, usually followed by noting how they spew too many bets off with them postflop. KJs I tend to play the same way as KQo. AJ and AT are also situational.

i've actually noticed myself playing more tight having come back to limit hold'em, it feels like everyone (by which i mean the nonfish) is playing looser and more aggressively preflop. there seems to be this pervading theorem that the correct way to play against loose aggression is loser moreaggressive, flying in the face of one of the most basic truths of playing successful poker. loose in a tight game, tight in a loose game.

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The analysis you did can be duplicated into a tree using Pokerrazor (i.e. you can run out certain boards and ranges saying "My opponent folds here with no Pair no Draw 95% of the time and will bluff some times, I will fold under these circumstances etc etc etc" and it will tie all teh trees together to get a result. A friend of mine ran a hand i was mulling over for me in it and it turns out that there were 0.03BB betwen the 2 decisions so it was written off to "Well neither decision is that wrong and at game speed there's really no leak either way."
but we all accept the value of being able to do this in our heads? good good.

as we touched on earlier, confidence in your data is more important than accuracy in your method.

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Old Jan 27, 2010, 12:17am   #14
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Loose and tight are relative terms. I believe a legitimate looser style came from exploiting tight player who fold way too much. This style became the new "tight" and so people play looser to exploit this, and so on. I think it is hard to exploit GOOD loose players by playing significantly tighter because you are more predictable. Of course, versus bad loose players, playing tight is fine because they don't know when to slow down. This is why the trend has tended toward looseness. This is what I gather as an outsider (I don't really play minbet, but I have read about it from time to time -- like in this thread).
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 2:14am   #15
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I think it is hard to exploit GOOD loose players by playing significantly tighter because you are more predictable.
not really, no.

an abc player is abc regardless of how loose he plays. a tricky player is tricky regardless of how tight he plays.

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Old Jan 27, 2010, 2:36am   #16
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Yes perhaps that was not quite what I meant. My point is that being tight by definition narrows your range, which makes you easier to play against in general. If nothing else, the loose player will usually be correct to fold when you show strength. Obviously this is something the tight player can exploit, but I would argue that the tight player would no longer be considered "tight" if he tries to exploit this frequently.
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 3:10am   #17
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I havent read this stuff but you are reraising every single hand you are playing there unless the table is ultra soft

reason is simple - shut out the blinds, possibly the limper
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 1:19pm   #18
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I havent read this stuff but you are reraising every single hand you are playing there unless the table is ultra soft

reason is simple - shut out the blinds, possibly the limper
that's beyond terrible.

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Old Jan 29, 2010, 3:37pm   #19
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Wow, this turned into a goldmine. My head has been spinning all week from catching a cold and by reading all of this it started to spin again from all the info.

Thanks for all the input. It gave me quite a few answers.
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