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Old Apr 21, 2010, 4:46pm   #111
Kanalratte
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Originally Posted by kmay06 View Post

So as white your opening should push your advantage, and as black you should aim to equalize? But why do I see tons of black players play a a6 or h6 as part of the opening. Are they just bad or does this accomplish something?
Yeah, tahts usually the way it goes. Moves like a6 and h6 are in some openings pretty standart and belong to the ideas of it. As a beginner I wd be cautious with these moves, just make simple development moves

U mean this: 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 b5 I think that is one of the most played line in the "Open Openings".


When u like to learn chess I recommend to go to the chessclub, usually the guys are happy to have a new member. Best is to talk with Degen, they can give u good tipps and also u will have players on ur level. So learneffect is good.



@KC: Yes, the Stonewall is not good ag this, White can bite the Black centre with f3 and e4 etc . Akward
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 6:13pm   #112
killcrazy
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So opening with a Sicilian as black I should avoid until I understand why I'm doing it? I think I open c5 Nf6 as black in a lot of games simply because I saw people doing it. But I guess I do anything else in the opening because I saw people doing it.
Yes. The sicilian is a strong opening, very popular with established players, but you need to have a lot of theory memorised to play it effectively. Deviating from the "book" moves will basically get you crushed.

example; 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 and now white should play 6.Ndb5, this is the only move that isn't actively bad for white. However I often see unprepared opponents trying moves like 6.Nb3 here (6.Nf3, 6.Nf5, Nxc6 are all bad too), 6...Bb4 7.Bd3 d5 8.exd5 Nxd5 9.Bd2 Nxc3 10.Bxc3 Bxc3 11.bxc3. white's queenside pawns are wrecked, with players of equal but competent strength, black is going to score about 67% from this position...this is a sideline, and I have it memorised up to move 11, some mainlines I have memorised more than 20 moves deep. with an opening like the sicilian, if you don't have book lines memorised, you are going to lose games before they even start. this is much less likely to happen with the very simple to understand, direct, ABC but still absolutely solid ideas of 1.d4 d5 and 1.e4 e5.

talking sicilian reminds me of a good example of the knights before bishops rule; 1.d4 c5 2.Bc4. looks standard, but black can simply play 2...e6, a useful move which fits neatly into black's ideas to contest the centre, and all but totally negates white's bishop on c4. the white bishop is going to have to move again or remain on a bad square. black can use the time white has to expend repositioning the bishop to gain a lead in development.

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Is there an advantage to playing my bishop to an open diagonol on the king for a check?
often yes. bishops and rooks are long range pieces, the more squares they control and/or can move to, the more valuable the piece is at the time. the values usually given (Q=9 R=5 N/B=3 P=1) are only true in a vacuum, they are the relative potential values of the pieces, but I've played games where I've declined to trade my knight for my opponent's rook because my knight was more valuable than his rook was in that specific position.

so playing your bishop to an open diagonal with check can often be a good move; the bishop is presumably more useful on that open diagonal than it would be wherever it's being moved from, and that it goes there with check means your opponent has to use his next move to answer the check, so you get the next move, and the bishop move was basically a free turn.

but obviously the game is not this simple, and there are always a host of mitigating factors that must be considered. perhaps it's to your advantage for his king to remain on the square it's on, because it's easier to attack with heavy pieces there, or perhaps your check allows him to improve his position more than you improve yours. You play Bc4+ and he responds with d5, supported by his knight on f6. Now your bishop has to move again and he has got a pawn in the centre for free.

any time you make a threat against any of your opponents' pieces, you need to think about what it actually achieves. if you move one of your pieces to a bad square to attack your opponent's piece, which moves to a good square to escape the threat, what have you gained? your threats should improve your pieces and/or make your opponents pieces worse.
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I've read having influence with pieces is best, and the center gets the best influence, but I've seen lots of people play something like kingside bishop to b5 only to get pushed back twice with pawn advances.
sometimes this is happening because the player understands well what is happening, and sometimes because he doesn't. In some openings, grandmasters and world champions have put thousands of hours into determining whether this idea is correct in this specific instance. in the ruy lopez, for instance, the game will begin 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5, white is attacking right away, creating threats which he intends to snowball into an advantage. black responds with a6, forcing white to either retreat his bishop (usually to the side of the board where it is slightly less effective) or exchange his bishop for black's knight (something strong players are reluctant to do without good reason, as having the bishop pair is itself an advantage if the bishops can be coordinated - you would only willingly give up the bishop pair if you were getting a tangible advantage in return, such as breaking your opponents pawns around his king, for instance).

As to playing in the centre. Unless there is good reason to play somewhere else, you should always be focused on the centre. centralised pieces can move quickly to play on either of the wings, but pieces committed on, for instance, the queenside cannot get to the kingside quickly. having more pieces than your opponent on one side of the board may give you an advantage there, but it also means that he has an advantage somewhere else, because he's going to have more pieces than you do over there. if everything is centralised, job's a good'un. Regarding influence specifically, yes, the more a piece is doing, the more valuable it is.

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So as white your opening should push your advantage, and as black you should aim to equalize?
Often, yes. There are two basic theories of black, some players try to achieve equality through steady build up moves, giving white nothing to work with until the point is reached where white hasn't been able to use his dynamic advantage (see next paragraph) and so it has evaporated and the game is even. Other players like to create furball positions, very imbalanced with many advantages and disadvantages for both sides. weighing all those advantages up, white probably is still slightly ahead, but the position is extremely complicated and either player can create or surrender a large advantage easily with one strong or slightly inaccurate move. as in poker, novices should play tight, playing loose requires more skill.

there are two basic kinds of advantages in chess, dynamic and static. dynamic advantages will dissapate into nothingness if not used. being ahead in development is a dynamic advantage, but if you don't use that lead in development to either attack your opponent or create static advantages, your opponent will catch up and the advantage has disappeared. static advantages are not going away, or at least will not go away by inaction. being up material is the obvious example; if you have an extra piece you're always going to have an extra piece unless you blunder it or your opponent finds a tactic to win it back. bad pawns is another example, as in the sicilian line i gave earlier, white's pawns are awful. isolated pawn on the a file, doubled isolated pawn on the c file. these are just targets for black, none of these 3 pawns can ever be defended by brother pawns on adjacent files, and unless black does something retarded and allows white to make a capture on the b file using one of his c pawns, those pawns are going to be fucked for the rest of the game.
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But why do I see tons of black players play a a6 or h6 as part of the opening. Are they just bad or does this accomplish something?
again, either because they don't know what they're doing, or they know very well what they're doing. a move like a6 is usually played to take the b5 square away from the opponent, or perhaps to support a pawn advance to b5; if you intend to play the c8 bishop to b7, you can play b6 to achieve this, or perhaps you play a6 and b5. the latter option takes an extra move, but also grabs a little more space in that area of the board, and can take the c4 square (which is often useful early in the game) away from white.

so, yeah, a6 stops white using the b5 square. in some openings this is extremely useful for black, in other openings white didn't want to use that square anyway and black has basically lost a move.

man thats a lot of text. can you tell i used to coach this game?

Kc
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 6:17pm   #113
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When u like to learn chess I recommend to go to the chessclub, usually the guys are happy to have a new member. Best is to talk with Degen, they can give u good tipps and also u will have players on ur level. So learneffect is good.
we are lucky in europe. there are half a dozen chess clubs within walking distance of my home. i know plenty american players who have to drive for an hour or more to get to their club.

but @kmay, your college probably has a chess club.

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@KC: Yes, the Stonewall is not good ag this, White can bite the Black centre with f3 and e4 etc . Akward
there's a lot to be said for learning players trying the stonewall out for a while. it's uncompromising, you MUST attack, and if your attack fails you're going to lose the endgame most of the time anyway. it's a bit like being thrown into the sea, either you learn to swim or you die, except it doesn't matter if you die a few times in chess, you still get the learning experience.

Kc
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 6:39pm   #114
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there's a lot to be said for learning players trying the stonewall out for a while. it's uncompromising, you MUST attack
Cant agree,sorry

Do u know the Stonewallbook from Jakob Aagard?? There is a lot of poistional play in this opening. Some lines are like the Queens Gambit Declined or Catalan , the only difference ist the P on f5. It is really solid if u want but of course u also can go for a kill ( I dont like ). A book I really recommend


BTW: are u up for some training on chessbaseserver, looking over some games or like this? Alone Im pretty lazy but together Im much more motivated


1 hour to the club is really annoying
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 6:49pm   #115
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Cant agree,sorry
awesome, you finally get to be wrong about something

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Do u know the Stonewallbook from Jakob Aagard??
no, but he was a fixture at major scottish tournaments until he decided to be danish again.

Quote:
There is a lot of poistional play in this opening.
no, there is a lot of antipositional play in this opening

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Some lines are like the Queens Gambit Declined or Catalan
okay, now i'm certain that you're talking about the dutch stonewall rather than the stonewall attack.

nobody should go anywhere near the dutch stonewall

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BTW: are u up for some training on chessbaseserver, looking over some games or like this? Alone Im pretty lazy but together Im much more motivated
probably, i would need to investigate the site. positions and game fragments we could do here to encourage our novices to grow

Kc
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:13pm   #116
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awesome, you finally get to be wrong about something


U mean Im a wiseacre or did I got that wrong?

no, but he was a fixture at major scottish tournaments until he decided to be danish again.

Yeah

no, there is a lot of antipositional play in this opening

NO


okay, now i'm certain that you're talking about the dutch stonewall rather than the stonewall attack

I mean the Dutch Stonewall,solid right?

nobody should go anywhere near the dutch stonewall

probably, i would need to investigate the site. positions and game fragments we could do here to encourage our novices to grow

OK,U can signup 4 free and have a 30 days trial.Then u can buy or buy an old Fritzversion with serial number (cheaper)

Kc
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:33pm   #117
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see i was talking about the stonewall attack, and assumed you were too since we got there via the colle, which is a close relative of the stonewall attack.

stonewall dutch is a whole different kettle of drums.

will look into the chessbase server. might have a signup code from when i got chessbase actually.

Kc
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:57pm   #118
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Stonewall attack sucks, just for the reason that ure a tempo up as white. Sounds like BS but it is not the only example. Misunderstood obv.

My name on chessbase is Esoxbait, if u want to play some 10min games or so ship me a PM on the server.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 8:20pm   #119
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Ah what I wanted to ask but always forgot to: Do u eat Haggish,KC

I once ate it when I was very very drunk and to be honest I have to say I liked it. But I think I never have the balls to eat it sober
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Old Apr 24, 2010, 7:13pm   #120
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Nice game by Topalov to open the match... http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1579916

And lets to do a personal favourite three games

Mine are:

The obvious choice of Kasparov vs Topalov 1999
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1011478


Capa vs Marshall, 1918 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1095025. Always have thought that Capa being able to navigate through the very first Marshall Gambit over the board was amazing.


Topalov vs Shirov, 1998 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1143956. Not so much for the game but for the one move Bh3!!
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