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Old Aug 26, 2010, 2:53am   #1
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Unusual preflop lines in both hands I realise; However villain in H1 is aggro and seems capable but accurately has my 4bet range here at AAxx only so I opt to flat instead of turn my hand face up

Full Tilt Poker Game #23368801425: Table Vroom (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 21:41:40 ET - 2010/08/25
Seat 1: thaa flash ($126)
Seat 2: morpheus1 ($14.55)
Seat 3: Jacksonian1824 ($149.55)
Seat 4: SwoopAE ($225.25)
Seat 5: pootdonk ($125.30)
Seat 6: BADBOYNEL ($203.40)
morpheus1 posts the small blind of $0.50
Jacksonian1824 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SwoopAE [8h Ts Ac As]
SwoopAE raises to $3.50
pootdonk folds
BADBOYNEL raises to $12
thaa flash folds
morpheus1 folds
Jacksonian1824 folds
SwoopAE calls $8.50
*** FLOP *** [3s Jc 8d]
SwoopAE checks
BADBOYNEL bets $12.75
SwoopAE calls $12.75
*** TURN *** [3s Jc 8d] [4h]
SwoopAE checks
BADBOYNEL bets $31
SwoopAE calls $31
*** RIVER *** [3s Jc 8d 4h] [4d]
SwoopAE checks
BADBOYNEL bets $98
SwoopAE calls $98
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BADBOYNEL shows [6s 7s 9c 4c] three of a kind, Fours
SwoopAE mucks
BADBOYNEL wins the pot ($306) with three of a kind, Fours
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $309 | Rake $3
Board: [3s Jc 8d 4h 4d]
Seat 1: thaa flash (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: morpheus1 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Jacksonian1824 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: SwoopAE mucked [8h Ts Ac As] - two pair, Aces and Fours
Seat 5: pootdonk didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: BADBOYNEL showed [6s 7s 9c 4c] and won ($306) with three of a kind, Fours

Results aside, I think my line is very good here since he's repping AAxx and he's 2barreling aces (which we know he doesnt have) and 3barreling the river most likely since I can't really have a full house with my line and J8/J3 got counterfeited - pretty sure he thinks I have a hand like KKxx or Jxxx here.

@Kc, Joey - like or hate my line?

Assuming you 4bet and he flats, do you pot/get it in for 200bb on the flop? What do you do on the KQ4 flop etc?

Or if you like my preflop line, how is postflop? I really think i'm good here WAY more than 50% of the time on the river and any other line on the flop or turn seems to turn my hand into a bluff when I have decent showdown value on every street.

Despite the fact I lost the hand, I really like my line here vs some regs.

Thoughts?

How about bet sizing here when villain has me on AAxx either with a nut flush or air and is very likely to have a mid flush himself? I kinda like slightly bigger turn/river bets, although obviously it sucks if he checkshoves at any stage.

Full Tilt Poker Game #23368922812: Table Vroom (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 21:47:08 ET - 2010/08/25
Seat 1: PokerIsG69D ($145.25)
Seat 2: DaNewt ($19
Seat 3: SwoopAE ($185.40)
Seat 4: RealKidd ($37.50)
Seat 5: ooOspartaOoo ($81.55)
Seat 6: tuan ($60)
ooOspartaOoo posts the small blind of $0.50
tuan posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SwoopAE [4h Ks 9h Ts]
PokerIsG69D folds
DaNewt raises to $2
SwoopAE raises to $7
RealKidd folds
ooOspartaOoo calls $6.50
tuan folds
DaNewt calls $5
*** FLOP *** [9s 5s 6s]
ooOspartaOoo checks
DaNewt checks
SwoopAE bets $13
ooOspartaOoo folds
DaNewt calls $13
*** TURN *** [9s 5s 6s] [Ac]
DaNewt checks
SwoopAE bets $27
DaNewt calls $27
*** RIVER *** [9s 5s 6s Ac] [2h]
DaNewt checks
SwoopAE bets $55
DaNewt calls $55
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SwoopAE shows [4h Ks 9h Ts] a flush, King high
DaNewt mucks
SwoopAE wins the pot ($209) with a flush, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $212 | Rake $3
Board: [9s 5s 6s Ac 2h]
Seat 1: PokerIsG69D didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: DaNewt mucked [Qs 3d Kd Js] - a flush, Queen high
Seat 3: SwoopAE showed [4h Ks 9h Ts] and won ($209) with a flush, King high
Seat 4: RealKidd (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: ooOspartaOoo (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: tuan (big blind) folded before the Flop

I'm thinking 32 on the turn and 67 on the river maybe? Do you ever bet the full pot on the turn or river?
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Last edited by SwoopAE; Aug 26, 2010 at 7:36am.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 4:52am   #2
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Four bet more with non AAxx hands. If you had four bet in H1, I think getting it in on that flop is fine but not so fine on KQ4 type flops.

Re: H2, I feel like I probably check behind that flop a fair amount but am less likely to do it when it's not just heads-up and am also less likely to do it if I've been really aggro, so I maybe like it. Nothing really stands out to me as being a problem with the bet-sizing in H2. Don't be greedy.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 7:33am   #3
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I asked the best reg in the game (100rushplo); he said he 4bets most of the time in the first hand but my line postflop is perfect and that he bets bigger on the turn/river in hand 2.

Joey, TWLLM, anyone else who plays PLO, thoughts please?
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 3:43am   #4
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Hand 1.

4bet all day. You will only a bit more than 2x pot left in your stack postflop.
So bet folding AAs should basically never happen since though you will be behind his range when he shoves you almost always will have enough equity to call the rest off. I would only consider ck folding on some very bad boards like T98. Bet calling on KQ4 everytime.

As soon as you feel a player is being liberal with 3bets you should quickly move to 4betting a wider range. Something like good KK, very good QQ, any double suited rundowns, and some the better single suited rundowns.

As played it is fine post flop. He could even be value betting KK.


Hand 2

I cbet everytime, because I do bluff alot on monotone boards. I definetly need to include something lesser than the nuts in my 3 barrel value range.

I probably bet a bit bigger on turn and river.

On the monotone board (where the leading hand is fairly unlikely to change) from a game theory prospective 3 equal %pot size bets would be optimal. So you could figure out what % will put him all in the river.

But in practice it is probably better to exploit your opponent with whatever betsize you think is best at the time. Against a lot of people I bet small on flop, a bit bigger pot% on turn and then pot river. Thinking his river call frequency is fairly inelastic to the bet size.

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Old Aug 27, 2010, 4:29am   #5
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Thanks joey

+rep for the helpful input as always.
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 4:15am   #6
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First hand: IMO the reason why your call on the river was acceptable in the first hand is not because he's repping AAxx (really, he's not, unless he's a TWLLM-sized nit who doesn't ever 3-bet anything but AAxx). The reason it's a reasonable call is that, save for a random two pair/running trip hand, a juicy flop board just double-bricked and he should usually have nuts/air. Given the drawy texture of the flop (random middle-to-high cards get 3-bet pf so often) there's a good chance he's missed a middle straight draw twice.

So I agree with Joey overall (shocking, I know).


Second hand: fold preflop. This is a terrible hand. Save fancy plays for better hands than this imo.

Post-flop, played fine. Nice flop.
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 6:54am   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWLLM View Post
First hand: IMO the reason why your call on the river was acceptable in the first hand is not because he's repping AAxx (really, he's not, unless he's a TWLLM-sized nit who doesn't ever 3-bet anything but AAxx). The reason it's a reasonable call is that, save for a random two pair/running trip hand, a juicy flop board just double-bricked and he should usually have nuts/air. Given the drawy texture of the flop (random middle-to-high cards get 3-bet pf so often) there's a good chance he's missed a middle straight draw twice.

So I agree with Joey overall (shocking, I know).


Second hand: fold preflop. This is a terrible hand. Save fancy plays for better hands than this imo.

Post-flop, played fine. Nice flop.
Wow, you really are the nittiest nit I know.

Solid analysis on the first hand though, ty. Do you think my turn/river bet sizing on the second hand is optimal, or do you make larger bets on either/both streets?
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 10:30pm   #8
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Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Wow, you really are the nittiest nit I know.

Solid analysis on the first hand though, ty. Do you think my turn/river bet sizing on the second hand is optimal, or do you make larger bets on either/both streets?
Unless you're an 'always pot' player (a strategy which I think is *only* going to be close to optimal in full ring or deepstack games - and obviously, not on the river) I think your line is fine for valuebetting the flush.

In terms of folding, your hand is garbage. You basically have a KT9 (which doesn't make very many nut draws) and a King high suit. The 9 high suit is almost worthless - it only should ever come into play in a situation where it's the backup draw (or where the pot is very small and either checked down or there's very little betting). I think even Joey will probably agree it's a fold pf, and he's LAGtastic.
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 10:44pm   #9
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I know the hand is weak but it's 6max and i'm in position against a minraiser. I really don't see how peeling a flop or 3betting to balance my range with wraps and aces etc can be bad here. Obviously if i'm UTG+1 full ring or whatever it's an easy fold
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 11:15pm   #10
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Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
I know the hand is weak but it's 6max and i'm in position against a minraiser. I really don't see how peeling a flop or 3betting to balance my range with wraps and aces etc can be bad here. Obviously if i'm UTG+1 full ring or whatever it's an easy fold
Would you 3-bet a random four card hand here?
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