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Old Sep 07, 2010, 3:49am   #1
juicetoocool
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Default TPTK vs comptetent opponent

Villain is a 24/12 over 100 hands, seems solid. I decide to call the flop to give the impression that I have JJ/QQ/KK and am not sure if he has the ace. The turn brings possible draws and I decide to bet. Villain raises here. AT this point is it safe to assume that the villain has a flush draw, a weaker ace, or a set? If so, does he have a set enough of the time to warrant not getting the money in here? Will post results.

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
AbsolutePoker
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Hero ($10)
UTG+1 MARCIN55 ($12.52)
MP1 ARZENTA ($10)
MP2 ROBBIEMACK ($5.60)
MP3 MCGURKL ($12.12)
CO DANDELOS ($9.44)
BTN MRDUDEBROMAN ($4.15)
SB LAWRIN ($37.02)
BB ED_BEGLEY_JR ($9.60)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $0.35, MARCIN55 calls $0.35, 4 folds, MRDUDEBROMAN calls $0.35, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.20, 3 players)
Hero checks, MARCIN55 checks, MRDUDEBROMAN bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, MARCIN55 calls $0.60

Turn: ($3, 3 players)
Hero bets $2.20, MARCIN55 raises to $4.40, MRDUDEBROMAN folds, $2.2 to Hero ($6.85)?
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Old Sep 07, 2010, 4:36pm   #2
podbelski
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I'm afraid turn minraise almost always shows your TP-like hand is no good (it's a different story for the flop though). Also, I'm sure this kind of villain won't raise a draw at that point for such an amount, he's valueraising. So, I hate it but as played I'm folding.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 12:44am   #3
joeyjoejoejr
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Dont ever ck the flop here. The best way to get value in these games is just going to made a good hand then bet , bet, bet.

If you want to ck/call the flop to disguise your hand a bit and induce some bets dont do it with AK use something like AT instead. You should be very comfortable betting all streets for value with AK wheres as with AT 3 streets is pretty thin.

Also I find it a bit odd that you led the turn "because the turn brought in some possible draws". 30 different cards on the turn will bring a flush draw and gut shot like the Th did. Yes it possible that someone picked up a draw but its not very likely.

As played it probably is a fold on the turn because I assume these games are very passive. But your play on the flop and turn is so weird that you may have induced something so it is hard to fold now so I dont know what do.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 2:13am   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr View Post
Dont ever ck the flop here. The best way to get value in these games is just going to made a good hand then bet , bet, bet.

If you want to ck/call the flop to disguise your hand a bit and induce some bets dont do it with AK use something like AT instead. You should be very comfortable betting all streets for value with AK wheres as with AT 3 streets is pretty thin.

Also I find it a bit odd that you led the turn "because the turn brought in some possible draws". 30 different cards on the turn will bring a flush draw and gut shot like the Th did. Yes it possible that someone picked up a draw but its not very likely.

As played it probably is a fold on the turn because I assume these games are very passive. But your play on the flop and turn is so weird that you may have induced something so it is hard to fold now so I dont know what do.
I don't quite understand why I would bet the flop. It seems like I would just push out anything that could potentially pay me off, and the only thing giving me action at this point is a set? And if I am raised, then I have to raise again, and then I can't fold to a shove from a set?
I am confident these guys don't have Ace rags here. I can always pick out quickly which are the ones that play ace rag.

Thank you for your responses joey and pod
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Last edited by juicetoocool; Sep 08, 2010 at 2:15am.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 2:25am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicetoocool View Post
I don't quite understand why I would bet the flop. It seems like I would just push out anything that could potentially pay me off, and the only thing giving me action at this point is a set? And if I am raised, then I have to raise again, and then I can't fold to a shove from a set?
I am confident these guys don't have Ace rags here. I can always pick out quickly which are the ones that play ace rag.

Thank you for your responses joey and pod
They fold AQ and AJ?? You bet all streets so AQ calls on all streets.

Also this is a very standard flop to cbet bluff with all your KQ type stuff that missed. How do you expect to cbet "bluff" on a ace high flop if you dont bet when you hit the ace.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 5:08am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr View Post
They fold AQ and AJ?? You bet all streets so AQ calls on all streets.

Also this is a very standard flop to cbet bluff with all your KQ type stuff that missed. How do you expect to cbet "bluff" on a ace high flop if you dont bet when you hit the ace.
Well I would never open with KQ UTG of course, but I see your point. The only thing is, at these limits I think the majority of people are not paying enough attention to catch on when I cbet and when I slowplay.
I will bet out though from now on.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 10:13am   #7
podbelski
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I completely agree with joey, and see a tendency: in both two hands you've posted (a flush and this one) you have a top range hand worth your stack, and a difficult position, but trying to trap instead of getting max straightforward value.

As joey said, it's possible to take such lines with weaker made hands like AT here cause you can't play for stacks with them anyway, and it can balance your flop checking range.

It's interesting, maybe you have more hands misplayed like these...
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 7:20pm   #8
podbelski
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BTW, I hate to be results-oriented, but cannot ever resist to know the villain's hand...

had he slowplayed a small set, and, thinking you've turned two pairs with AT, raised but smallish hoping maybe the BTN will stay in the pot?

Last edited by podbelski; Sep 08, 2010 at 7:24pm.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 10:45pm   #9
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Turns out I shoved and he had a set of twos.
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Old Sep 08, 2010, 11:08pm   #10
podbelski
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maybe one more thing you can think about...

even if it somehow happened you are good on the turn, like maybe he decided to play AK/AQ this way, there are many more ways you are crushed. And you can't "call to reevaluate" cause he will bet the river like always... So I mean if it's theoretically possible you have the best hand (sometimes), you'll be bleeding money in the long run
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