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Old Jul 12, 2010, 8:59pm   #1
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Default river line

Anyone like a check on the river since his range is mostly busted draws? He may pay with 2p though which checks behind

Full Tilt Poker Game #22265215433: Table Vroom (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 15:49:38 ET - 2010/07/12
Seat 1: smokingjoep ($100)
Seat 2: ipooallday ($119.05)
Seat 3: matt57225 ($40.50)
Seat 4: SwoopAE ($199.80)
Seat 5: GoGetaRealJob ($127.75)
Seat 6: Wallaceman ($219.20)
ipooallday posts the small blind of $0.50
matt57225 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SwoopAE [6h 3d 5s 4d]
SwoopAE has 8 seconds left to act
SwoopAE raises to $3.50
GoGetaRealJob has 15 seconds left to act
GoGetaRealJob folds
Wallaceman calls $3.50
smokingjoep folds
ipooallday folds
matt57225 folds
*** FLOP *** [6s 4s Ad]
SwoopAE bets $8.50
Wallaceman has 15 seconds left to act
Wallaceman calls $8.50
*** TURN *** [6s 4s Ad] [2d]
SwoopAE bets $25.50
Wallaceman has 15 seconds left to act
Wallaceman calls $25.50
*** RIVER *** [6s 4s Ad 2d] [Kh]
SwoopAE has 15 seconds left to act
SwoopAE bets $45
Wallaceman has 15 seconds left to act
Wallaceman folds
Uncalled bet of $45 returned to SwoopAE
SwoopAE mucks
SwoopAE wins the pot ($73.50)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $76.50 | Rake $3
Board: [6s 4s Ad 2d Kh]
Seat 1: smokingjoep (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: ipooallday (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: matt57225 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: SwoopAE collected ($73.50), mucked
Seat 5: GoGetaRealJob didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Wallaceman folded on the River
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Old Jul 12, 2010, 10:36pm   #2
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Meh either is fine.
Betting is good because

You would like to bet as a bluff here reasonably often so I would defintely bet A6+. I don't think he bluffs this brick that often , 3-8 is better to ck to induce a bet from a busted draw.

Checking is okay with the nuts here , not because I think he bluffs that often but because I think he will value bet pretty thin since it looks pretty bluffly to bet the brick. Why do you think he cks two pair? I would bet here in villian spots pretty light thinking something as light as top pair might bluff catch.

He might then be inclined to call a ck shove with two pair because he can not have the nuts very often at all and risks being exploited if he is always bet/folding.

Anyways I usually bet here with a straight and missed draws without showdown , always bet here with A6-AA, and occasionly ck shove the nuts and spazes.


edit- I'm giving villian here a little credit to read a hand.....
If he is bad and always would bluff with a missed draw despite how transparent it looks then checking obviously becomes more attractive.

Last edited by joeyjoejoejr; Jul 12, 2010 at 10:54pm.
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Old Jul 13, 2010, 12:03am   #3
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Yeah its tough because I only have a few hands with villain and while he hasnt done anything spazzy yet, the average 100PLO rush player sucks hard

Thanks for the input.

I actually thought about the river a lot, thought 'this is probably a check vs a competent player but most 100PLOrush people will check 2p behind so I should bet

If anyone else wants to add their opinion that would be great

Actually one last thing - joey if you bet the river is it pot, something like 45 or something else entirely? thanks
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Old Jul 13, 2010, 1:49am   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post

Actually one last thing - joey if you bet the river is it pot, something like 45 or something else entirely? thanks
I think in spots where your range is not polarized (a nice range of thinish value hands, nuts and bluffs) it is better to bet a bit smaller around 45 like you did.

In spots where you have nuts or air (say you ck raise a monotone flop on the river) it should be for full pot.

Also I think lots of PLO players pot it way to much. On this flop and turn it was okay on this board. But in general I make smaller bets so it is easier to keep my range wider only betting pot when the board is particular draw heavy.
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Old Jul 13, 2010, 8:31am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoejr View Post
I think in spots where your range is not polarized (a nice range of thinish value hands, nuts and bluffs) it is better to bet a bit smaller around 45 like you did.

In spots where you have nuts or air (say you ck raise a monotone flop on the river) it should be for full pot.

Also I think lots of PLO players pot it way to much. On this flop and turn it was okay on this board. But in general I make smaller bets so it is easier to keep my range wider only betting pot when the board is particular draw heavy.
I tend to agree here, most of my bets are 70-90% pot, especially flop bets. Preflop I pot it a lot in 6max but not so much FR. Turn and river bets range a lot wider from half to full pot
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Old Jul 13, 2010, 12:38pm   #6
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Another one for Joey and anyone else who wants to take a crack at it

Thoughts on river bet size? Villain almost always has 2p or bottom set or something with how the hand played out

55 or put him all in? Or something else? I feel like he always calls up to half pot, no idea what he does with hands like his actual hand when I 3barrel all in? I may also induce a check-bluffshove if hes weak although probably not with a 55 bet since we're not deep enough (calling if he checkshoves obv)

Full Tilt Poker Game #22282565245: Table Vroom (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 7:35:31 ET - 2010/07/13
Seat 1: Inkognito6 ($102.35)
Seat 2: flipstylez ($449.65)
Seat 3: Doreal ($58.90)
Seat 4: Utchi ($181.30)
Seat 5: SwoopAE ($199)
Seat 6: farma18 ($146.70)
Utchi posts the small blind of $0.50
SwoopAE posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SwoopAE [Js Jc 5c 5d]
farma18 calls $1
SwoopAE has been disconnected
Inkognito6 has 8 seconds left to act
SwoopAE has reconnected
Inkognito6 raises to $4.50
flipstylez folds
Doreal folds
Utchi calls $4
SwoopAE calls $3.50
farma18 calls $3.50
*** FLOP *** [2c Jh 3s]
Utchi checks
SwoopAE bets $14
farma18 folds
Inkognito6 folds
Utchi calls $14
*** TURN *** [2c Jh 3s] [9h]
Utchi checks
SwoopAE bets $46
Utchi calls $46
*** RIVER *** [2c Jh 3s 9h] [7c]
Utchi checks
SwoopAE bets $55
Utchi calls $55
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SwoopAE shows [Js Jc 5c 5d] three of a kind, Jacks
Utchi mucks
SwoopAE wins the pot ($245) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $248 | Rake $3
Board: [2c Jh 3s 9h 7c]
Seat 1: Inkognito6 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: flipstylez didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Doreal (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Utchi (small blind) mucked [3c Th 9c Qh] - two pair, Nines and Threes
Seat 5: SwoopAE (big blind) showed [Js Jc 5c 5d] and won ($245) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: farma18 folded on the Flop
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Old Jul 15, 2010, 6:43am   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Another one for Joey and anyone else who wants to take a crack at it

Thoughts on river bet size? Villain almost always has 2p or bottom set or something with how the hand played out

55 or put him all in? Or something else? I feel like he always calls up to half pot, no idea what he does with hands like his actual hand when I 3barrel all in? I may also induce a check-bluffshove if hes weak although probably not with a 55 bet since we're not deep enough (calling if he checkshoves obv)

Full Tilt Poker Game #22282565245: Table Vroom (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 7:35:31 ET - 2010/07/13
Seat 1: Inkognito6 ($102.35)
Seat 2: flipstylez ($449.65)
Seat 3: Doreal ($58.90)
Seat 4: Utchi ($181.30)
Seat 5: SwoopAE ($199)
Seat 6: farma18 ($146.70)
Utchi posts the small blind of $0.50
SwoopAE posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SwoopAE [Js Jc 5c 5d]
farma18 calls $1
SwoopAE has been disconnected
Inkognito6 has 8 seconds left to act
SwoopAE has reconnected
Inkognito6 raises to $4.50
flipstylez folds
Doreal folds
Utchi calls $4
SwoopAE calls $3.50
farma18 calls $3.50
*** FLOP *** [2c Jh 3s]
Utchi checks
SwoopAE bets $14
farma18 folds
Inkognito6 folds
Utchi calls $14
*** TURN *** [2c Jh 3s] [9h]
Utchi checks
SwoopAE bets $46
Utchi calls $46
*** RIVER *** [2c Jh 3s 9h] [7c]
Utchi checks
SwoopAE bets $55
Utchi calls $55
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SwoopAE shows [Js Jc 5c 5d] three of a kind, Jacks
Utchi mucks
SwoopAE wins the pot ($245) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $248 | Rake $3
Board: [2c Jh 3s 9h 7c]
Seat 1: Inkognito6 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: flipstylez didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Doreal (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Utchi (small blind) mucked [3c Th 9c Qh] - two pair, Nines and Threes
Seat 5: SwoopAE (big blind) showed [Js Jc 5c 5d] and won ($245) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: farma18 folded on the Flop
I expect to see a smaller set here and will always bet the max. You will get called. Also, if he is bad enough to play that hand that way he is certainly bad enough to stack off once in a while with that hand.

As far as inducing a bluff, I dunno, not much to pretend to be scared of. I can't see that move in a rush game. But I am a pot bettor anyway.
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Old Jul 15, 2010, 1:29pm   #8
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Thanks for the input
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Old Jul 16, 2010, 1:59am   #9
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Swoop, I'm just going all in everytime here.....
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Old Jul 16, 2010, 3:10am   #10
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Cool. That's why I posted the hand; as played he may not pay the shove with his actual hand but I think I may be losing value not shoving there
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