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Old Sep 11, 2010, 8:17pm   #1
juicetoocool
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Default JJ on BB

Villain is an 18/11 over ~230 hands. Here I decide to flat, I often 3bet jacks in this spot. So I suppose first thing I should do is 3bet. ANyways as played, here I should raise enough to about $3.4 but fold to shove. If he calls, check/fold any spade that hits, and bet/call any undercard thats not a spade? What do you think? If a non-spade over comes, is check/fold to weak? How should I proceed?

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
AbsolutePoker
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG BLOODY1 ($12.15)
UTG+1 MKS0923 ($9.48)
MP1 DEFMASHINA ($13.38)
MP2 ARTZOLOTOV ($3.50)
MP3 SKRYGINVI ($4.15)
CO ELEKTROOO ($14.99)
BTN TARMSPRACKAR ($10)
SB HIGHFLYER555 ($9.55)
BB Hero ($20.68)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, DEFMASHINA raises to $0.30, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.45, DEFMASHINA raises to $1.20, $0.75 to Hero ($19.93)?
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Old Sep 18, 2010, 3:35pm   #2
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you should have a plan already when you decide to do something like leading this board

leading here is probably not a bad idea at all, but if you dont know how to play it after it that's bad

as played you cannot 3bet to 4.50 (and fold to a shove), that would turn your hand into a bluff as you would represent a flush or set.

the play now is to call and see. probably check and call on just about any turn card. if you make a flush its good for one more bet, though just folding to a turn bet can be fine too if you think hed never bluff there.

after your turn c/c your hand is a bluff catcher on any river to any bet size. since its unlikely he bluff raises flop and barrels of his whole stack Id usually fold. but if you feel hes capable of going crazy you could also call down.
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Old Sep 18, 2010, 6:59pm   #3
podbelski
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I don't see any problem flatting JJ pre, actually I do this more often than raise, but that's another story.

I like check-calling the flop and decide on the turn. Basically, I estimate your hand is worth 2 streets of value in that situation. If he barrels A/K/Q turn it's probably close, I can see a call if you have enough direct pot odds to river a flush and check down/fold to 3rd barrel.
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Old Sep 18, 2010, 9:20pm   #4
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...and I think after check-calling the flop you have second option to bet/fold blank turn, i.e. to protect against overcards and charge flushdraws, plus probanly getting value from mid-PPs. Check-fold river.
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Old Nov 15, 2010, 2:07am   #5
Fredrik
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I like the call preflop, given the early position of the raiser. If he calls or 4-bets your reraise from that position, you're already in trouble (or would be at higher stakes at least).

If you do lead out on the flop, then what BubbleBoy said. But if you don't lead with your flushes, you probably shouldn't lead with jacks.

I prefer to check-call, but I don't think it's profitable to do it three times unless you hit the flush on the river. Honestly, I don't think it's profitable even if you do. After the first two bets, his range is still pretty big: Flushes betting for value and/or protection, overpairs betting mainly for protection, sets betting for value and protection, maybe 65s, and also pure bluffs. The third bet should be a big flush or a pure bluff. If he was betting an overpair, a set or a small flush, he's probably checking behind on the river. So the question is, how often would this guy three-barrel with air here? Wouldn't he assume that most of the time when you call the first two bets, you have at least one spade and won't be willing to fold?

Podbelski's suggestion to lead/fold the turn after check/calling the flop is interesting. I don't do that myself, but maybe I should.

Another option is to turn your hand into a bluff right there on the flop, by making a pretty big check/raise. That line is certainly easier to play. If he calls and you hit the flush, bet the turn and check/fold the river. If he calls and you miss the flush, bet the turn and check/fold the river against a very loose/passive player, and just check/fold the turn against a better opponent.
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