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Old Nov 12, 2010, 10:08am   #1
Fredrik
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Default Playing the BB (NL 6-max)

I'm having serious problems with my game from the blinds, especially the big blind. In this 2+2 thread, a bunch of people posted their win rates, and I don't think any of them was as horrible as mine, even though I do better than almost all of them UTG and on the button. My "win" rate in the BB is at -40 bb/100 over the last 120K hands (23K hands in the BB) when I filter for more than 2 players. I defended 22%, and a bit more than half of that (12%) were reraises. Only about 1/28 of the 23K hands went to showdown, so it's clear that my disastrous results in the BB is the main reason for my disastrous red line.

So I'm hoping to get a discussion going about how to play from the big blind. Let's start with the situations where you have two unpaired T+ cards in your hand, facing a raise from the CO or BTN, and everyone else has folded. Which hands are we folding? How do we continue in the most common postflop situations after just calling the raise preflop? What if we hit top pair? Check-call, check, lead for 2/3 pot? I feel that that line doesn't get enough value, and that all other lines are both risky and pretty difficult to play. A donkbet gets too many folds. A check-raise gets more value from weak hands, but gets you into serious trouble sometimes.
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 11:07am   #2
Loder89
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Your question is way to vague...
The looser the Opener is the more you should defend. The higher your skill compared to the opener the more you should defend. The more sombody folds to 3Bets the more I'll polarize my 3bet Range and call with more Broadways. I usually prefer c/r over leading out Flops because taking down c-bets is so essential and it is way easier to balance.
Not entirely sure what exactly you want to discuss about...
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Why would you fold any pre-flop hand. There is always a chance that you might get a gutshot. So why would you fold?
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 7:53pm   #3
Fredrik
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Originally Posted by Loder89 View Post
Your question is way to vague...
...
Not entirely sure what exactly you want to discuss about...
I want to discuss all aspects of playing from the big blinds that separates a -40 bb/100 player from a -15 bb/100 player. I only narrowed it down to unpaired broadway hands against a single raiser in a steal position to get the discussion started. I want to talk about a lot more situations after that. I don't expect one person to explain everything they do in the BB, but I hope many people will contribute with stuff about specific situations that they have an opinion about.

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Originally Posted by Loder89 View Post
The looser the Opener is the more you should defend. The higher your skill compared to the opener the more you should defend. The more sombody folds to 3Bets the more I'll polarize my 3bet Range and call with more Broadways. I usually prefer c/r over leading out Flops because taking down c-bets is so essential and it is way easier to balance.
That sounds like how I've been playing. I don't find skill to be a significant factor though. There are times when it matters, but players that are that bad don't show up often anymore. There really are 5 regulars on every 1/2 6-max table these days, and they play much better than the 3/6 regulars (3-4 at each table) did in 2008. For the purposes of this discussion, assume that the player that raised is competent. The factors that I think matter the most are that player's open-raise percentage from that position, his fold-to-reraise stat, and his 4-bet stat. I think that in the past, I would focus too much on one of those numbers. For example, I would notice that he opens a lot, so I would respond by reraise-bluffing a lot. I'm trying to develop a more sophisticated strategy that's different against different combos of those numbers. For example, 88 is only a reraise against someone who opens a lot, folds to reraises a lot and either has a very high or very low 4-bet percentage, so that I can shove or fold and be confident that it's the best play. It's definitely not a reraise against someone who likes to call reraises.
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 8:30pm   #4
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I don't find skill to be a significant factor though.
good night.

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Old Nov 12, 2010, 9:37pm   #5
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good night.

Kc
Great post.
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 9:39pm   #6
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That sounds like how I've been playing. I don't find skill to be a significant factor though. There are times when it matters, but players that are that bad don't show up often anymore. There really are 5 regulars on every 1/2 6-max table these days, and they play much better than the 3/6 regulars (3-4 at each table) did in 2008. For the purposes of this discussion, assume that the player that raised is competent. .
I you should make table selection your number one priority. There is no reason at 1/2 to be playing with on table full of other regulars. Between Party/Fulltilt and Stars there are more than 100 1/2 6 max tables running at any time usually more.

I would suggust you cut down to 4 tables and constantly spend the extra time scanning the lobby, marking fish is really easy with the new software.
Just get off the table when the table is full of compentent players even if you are sure you have an small edge. You will make more money playing looking for tables where you have a huge edge.

Obviously if you want to get back to the higher midstakes you will have battle regs but there is absolutly no point doing it at 1/2 if your primary goal is more money,

The biggest difference between at -15 BB/100 and -40 BB/100 is probably table selection.
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Old Nov 12, 2010, 10:37pm   #7
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Thanks for the advice. I do try to avoid the worst tables, but I can probably do better. And I should cut down to 4 tables at least some of the time (I usually play 5 or 6). Unfortunately Party isn't really an option (no rakeback) and Pokerstars definitely isn't (I would have to pay taxes on what I win). I will probably leave Full Tilt too, because it's unclear if the law requires me to pay taxes on my winnings from there. But I will at least finish clearing the cash bonus I got from the black card store before I go. (The black card promotion is a joke by the way. "The most coveted card in poker" earns you roughly a 2K bonus once a year, which takes 2 months to clear).

Oh, and I lose 40 bb/100 in the BB, not 40 BB.

Last edited by Fredrik; Nov 12, 2010 at 10:40pm.
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Old Nov 13, 2010, 2:45am   #8
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Party does basically have rakeback now. You can trade party points for instant cash and it works out to reasonable rakeback. Its similar to the stars system and that higher volume players are rewarded more but the top level is much easier to obtain (and not as good)

Playing 4-6 1/2 tables I think you would get up to 25% rakeback without much problem and you would get a deposit bonus at the start. I didnt check these numbers at all but im sure you could find out the exact % somewhere fairly easily.
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Old Nov 13, 2010, 3:38am   #9
Fredrik
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Thanks for the tip. I'll consider it when it's time to switch sites. I think there's a year-end bonus at Full Tilt, so I might stick around until some time early next year.

Hm, what you said about party actually sounds pretty odd. I believe you, but they still have to pay the affiliates something like 1/3 of what we rake, don't they?
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Old Nov 13, 2010, 1:06pm   #10
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this thread could get interesting. going to try and start off the discussion about the T+ broadway cards in the blinds playing OOP. anyone please continue to add on any thoughts.

i think creating an image to where your c/r'ing a lot of flops can be good because we can start getting some light calls with our KQ's on Q74r type boards etc.

Fredrik, you also say donk bets get too many folds. I've been experimenting with pretty much donking anytime I have two overs and some decent backdoor equity. I get a lot of folds on the flop and if I pick up any equity on the turn, fd, gutshot, etc (QT on 7928 etc) donk again and it seems to be working decently well. Going off a small sample so doesn't mean much but the discussion could get interesting.

So to start, donk often with your air and start a checkraise dynamic with regs that will begin possible light calldowns.

More discussion please, these forums have been so dead lately.
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