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Old Nov 23, 2010, 7:21am   #1
Fredrik
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Default SB reraises, then checks A73 flop.

I find that if I have raised and called a reraise on the button (something I don't do a lot, because people aren't reraising me as much as they should), and the opponent checks, a small stab at the pot will often win it. A less than half pot bet is usually sufficient. The question is, if there's an A on the flop, should I choose to not bluff, or to fire multiple barrels? (Assume that I have no history of similar situations against him. Assume also that the opponent is fairly competent).


Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($335)
BB ($227)
UTG ($229)
UTG+1 ($341)
CO ($203)
Hero ($200)

Dealt to Hero

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6, SB raises to $22, fold, Hero calls $16

FLOP ($46)

SB checks
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 7:44am   #2
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hard to say without any description of the villain

if he checks here he will usually call 1-2 bets to catch FD and Bluffs (ok some won't and just fold)
if i bluff i like the board to be wet / coordinated to rep more stuff on later streets
a lot of opp also check small Aces here so u cant just spew your stack off

u have ok equity vs JJ TT etc blabla.. checking or betting smallish is both fine
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 12:36pm   #3
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With a delayed stab (check flop bet turn) you will have more information about his hand, I mean if he checks twice he's folding the turn or the river.
The tradeoff is he will bet some hands on the turn (and you fold) that he can't check-call to showdown with (mid pocket pairs, maybe some air, some small PPs).

I think by checking the flop you announce you don't have an A, what is bad... I'd say without reads, you can't tell what line is more profitable here, but you can chose one thinking about the image it will give you later

Last edited by podbelski; Nov 23, 2010 at 12:40pm.
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 4:20pm   #4
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with a standard threebetting range, he should have AX about half the time, about a third of the time he has a pocket pair 99 or better, and the rest of the time he's light.

so the first observation is, there isn't a whole lot in his range you can shift. he's not going anywhere with AX and it's going to take you at least 2 barrels to get rid of the pocket pairs, possibly 3 if the turn is brickish. whether you check or bet, you need a plan for the turn.

if your hand doesn't improve, you have very little showdown equity, so on balance I prefer checking back in this spot against an unknown. if you start betting here you're committing yourself to having another go, and you can drop 30BB very easily.

which does bring up another point, a king or queen can easily be no good here, because his range is narrow and contains AK/AQ/KK/QQ.

final thought, if you aren't getting threebet as much as you should, there's a good chance you aren't raising enough.

Kc
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 7:26pm   #5
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Thanks guys. You've been saying pretty much the same things I've been thinking, but it's nice to get those thoughts confirmed by someone else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
final thought, if you aren't getting threebet as much as you should, there's a good chance you aren't raising enough.
My opening range on the button can be anything from 33% to 100% depending on who's in the blinds. On average it works out to 50-55%. What I actually had in mind is that when I open close to 100%, the guys in the blinds don't reraise me even close to as much as they should. They do however 5-bet-shove against almost all my 4-bets. That's why I didn't consider turning the hand into a 4-bet bluff.
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 8:41pm   #6
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with a standard threebetting range, he should have AX about half the time, about a third of the time he has a pocket pair 99 or better, and the rest of the time he's light.

Kc

yes but what is his range to 3 bet check an A high flop?


I like betting here if he doesnt reraise he has to have Ac Xc or he doesnt like his hand all that much. I find alot of players just give up right here far more then should. If called I will have a bunch of cards i will fire with on the turn and some I will check. Same with river I may give up I may bet I may even shove it really depends on what cards come and any timeing tells reads I pick up on my opponent.............
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

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Old Nov 23, 2010, 8:56pm   #7
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I feel that if I bet once, I should bet at least one more time after that. The thing is, I think I've tried 3-barreling exactly once, and that time I lost to A4o or some crap like that. (Yeah, I know....results oriented...that's why I'm asking for other people's experiences).

Not sure if it's too early to post the results, but I'll do it anyway. I hope it won't influence future comments too much. I bet around 20 (don't remember the exact number, too lazy to check) on the flop, checked it down after he called, and I lost to QQ. Maybe the bet sizing is wrong for an Axx flop. A smallish bet will usually win the pot after an 8xx flop, but this wasn't an 8xx flop.

Last edited by Fredrik; Nov 23, 2010 at 8:59pm.
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 10:47pm   #8
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betting once is the biggest mistake u can make imo
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 11:20pm   #9
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Originally Posted by DirtySanchez80 View Post
betting once is the biggest mistake u can make imo

+1*



* unless a card comes off that makes giveing up your best option ei. 2nd ace
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

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Old Nov 24, 2010, 2:00am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySanchez80 View Post
betting once is the biggest mistake u can make imo
interested to hear someone else's opinion on this:

if you're sb, you check, he bets and you call. firstly, what's your calling range, and secondly, what turns are you leading into?

Kc
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