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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:14am   #1
beuti
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Default 50NL - 99 on AAA flop vs donkbets

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Jabbbbo ($121.90)
CO maddin45 ($28.52)
BTN Hero ($56.31)
SB Feder1Nho10 ($50)
BB nicosia106 ($66.04) 70/3/Afq: 31 auf 32 Hände

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BTN
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, nicosia106 calls $1

Flop: ($3.25, 2 players)
nicosia106 bets $3, Hero raised ?

war noch nicht lange am tisch und hab keine ahnung womit villain hier alarm macht. raise und wenn er shoved, wie gehts dann weiter ? oder gibts ne alternative line ?
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:24am   #2
lejean80
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Warum willst Du raisen? Damit er mit seinem Ax und TT-KK mehr Geld macht, oder weil Du denkst, dass er sein 22-88 niemals foldet, da er ja auch nen boat hat? Protection vs. QK, KJ, KT, QJ, QT etc. ... ? Wenn er mit diesen Händen bettet (blufft), dann sollte nen calldown besser sein. Wenn er 22-88 selbst bettet, dann ist doch in positon auch okay down zu callen. Wenn er diese Hände nicht bettet, dann gibt es sowieso keinen Grund zu raisen.

Ich kann nicht wirklich sagen ob es optimal ist, aber ich calle den hier einfach runter und schaue was er hat. Den flop zu raisen kommt mir spewy vor.
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:29am   #3
beuti
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den selben gedankengang hatte ich auch. hand ging so weiter:

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Jabbbbo ($121.90)
CO maddin45 ($28.52)
BTN Hero ($56.31)
SB Feder1Nho10 ($50)
BB nicosia106 ($66.04)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BTN
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, nicosia106 calls $1

Flop: ($3.25, 2 players)
nicosia106 bets $3, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($9.25, 2 players)
nicosia106 bets $10, Hero calls $10

River: ($29.25, 2 players)
nicosia106 bets $20, Hero ?
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:35am   #4
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Verstehe die Frage nicht

Ob Du am river folden sollst, dachdem Du flop und turn schon gecallt hast?

Warum hast Du am turn denn gecallt? Hast Du nur gecallt weil Du gedacht hast, dass er Dich am river in Ruhe lässt? Da kann ich Dir mal ein Geheimnis verraten: Donks die flop und turn hart donken, donken zu 99% auch am river!

Die Entscheidung fällt am flop! Calldown egal was kommt, ja oder nein? Wenn nicht, dann fold flop (oder turn), aber niemals flop und turn calln um am river zu folden!
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:37am   #5
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ok obv hab ich die hand ok gespielt. hatte mich auch schon am flop für call down entschieden und wollte bloß wissen obs ok ist ?
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:43am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejean80 View Post
Verstehe die Frage nicht

Ob Du am river folden sollst, dachdem Du flop und turn schon gecallt hast?

Warum hast Du am turn denn gecallt? Hast Du nur gecallt weil Du gedacht hast, dass er Dich am river in Ruhe lässt? Da kann ich Dir mal ein Geheimnis verraten: Donks die flop und turn hart donken, donken zu 99% auch am river!

Die Entscheidung fällt am flop! Calldown egal was kommt, ja oder nein? Wenn nicht, dann fold flop (oder turn), aber niemals flop und turn calln um am river zu folden!
das rote is iMo falsch. ich denke das die Entscheidung eher am Turn getroffen wird.

das grüne mit 99% is evtl ein wenig zu viel^^ aber die Tendenz is auf jeden Fall richtig. ob du dich für calldown oder nicht entscheidest, kommt dabei dann nur noch auf den Gegner und seine Tendenzen an. da du hier noch keine echten Reads hast, muck ich da einfach.
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:46am   #7
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das rote is iMo falsch. ich denke das die Entscheidung eher am Turn getroffen wird.

das grüne mit 99% is evtl ein wenig zu viel^^ aber die Tendenz is auf jeden Fall richtig. ob du dich für calldown oder nicht entscheidest, kommt dabei dann nur noch auf den Gegner und seine Tendenzen an. da du hier noch keine echten Reads hast, muck ich da einfach.
Am flop fällt die Entscheidung, ob man sich am turn entscheidet broke zu gehen ...

Aber hast schon recht ...
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:50am   #8
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hmm also jetzt doch fold turn oder was ?
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 12:51am   #9
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Originally Posted by lejean80 View Post
Am flop fällt die Entscheidung, ob man sich am turn entscheidet broke zu gehen ...

Aber hast schon recht ...
ok, verkompliziert geantwortet halt ;)
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Old Jan 02, 2011, 1:00am   #10
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hmm also jetzt doch fold turn oder was ?
Musst ihn halt soul-readen und dann entscheiden, ob Du am flop folden willst, ob Du am turn folden willst, oder ob Du ihn runter callen willst. Am river zu folden ist aber nicht gut (es sei denn natürlich er bettet $1 - $1 und dann $20 am river).

Nochmal zum Punkt der Entscheidung: Natürlich entscheidet man sich schon am flop ... Du callst den flop ja nicht ohne Dir Gedanken zu machen was Du am turn machen willst. Die Entscheidung lautet etwa "Ich calle jetzt diese flop-bet und evaluiere am turn neu" ... und am turn entscheidet man sich dann entweder zu folden oder bis zum Ende zugehen. Ich habe das vorhin nicht gut rüber gebracht, sorry! Am turn zu folden ist natürlich eine Option!
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