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Old Mar 21, 2011, 9:27am   #21
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I don't quite get this river bluf/vbet thing as well. For the turn, a perfect example for me is when you have an underpair-type hand on a flush-draw board, and by betting you can fold better underpairs (a bluff) or charge draws (valuebet). Can't think about similar case for the river, besides of what kmay said, and his case does not fully satisfy me.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 10:05am   #22
Karsten4130
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Pls bluff value shove the river. Fold to a call.

5 star thread imo.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 10:43am   #23
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yeah, bluff-call him down!
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 1:38pm   #24
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Originally Posted by podbelski View Post
I don't quite get this river bluf/vbet thing as well

Do you believe a player folds with X and calls with Y and there is a solid line between the two? Or this there in overlap?
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

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Old Mar 21, 2011, 2:26pm   #25
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Well he can`t fold and call at the same time.
(Unless he is french and playing the partouche poker tour.)
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 2:35pm   #26
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Originally Posted by Karsten4130 View Post
Well he can`t fold and call at the same time.
(Unless he is french and playing the partouche poker tour.)


lol yeah I didnt explain myslef well there. I will try again later......
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 2:41pm   #27
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Originally Posted by acehole_76 View Post
Do you believe a player folds with X and calls with Y and there is a solid line between the two? Or this there in overlap?
so you shove and pray the opp "makes something stupid", like folding better but calling worse, not because of odds stuff, but simply due to a momentary mood
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 4:13pm   #28
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so you shove and pray the opp "makes something stupid", like folding better but calling worse, not because of odds stuff, but simply due to a momentary mood
Not really, no. Again, it's a nomenclature that comes because of not knowing where your opponent is on the river. If your opponent "gives you credit" a certain percentage of the time and folds all but his premium hands, you are bluffing in the sense that he is folding better (and worse). However, you are value betting as well because a bet with a 2 pair is will get looked up a lot of the time by his whole range because in his mind his set is still just a bluff catcher to your nut range, and if your range is nuts+bluffs then he has no reason to call much more often with a set than with tptk. In his mind your range is very polarized.

I guess the long short of it is on the river in retrograde analysis your bet will be one or the other depending on whether your opponents specific cards were higher or lower in rank. However, in terms of ranges you can make a +EV bet that is +EV because of getting called by worse hands more often than by better hands, but that still garners more +EV because you will fold out a lot of his whole non-nut range a certain % of the time when he gives you credit for repping the nuts.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 4:25pm   #29
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thats too complicated for me, I'd better stick to my favorite - setmine then donkshove the flop
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 5:46pm   #30
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It´s not complicated, it just doesn´t make sense.
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