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Old Mar 08, 2011, 1:28pm   #1
slippyjim
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Default Dealing with loose players

Hiya,

I have been only playing poker for about 6 months but have read a lot, so I know about starting hands depending on position, hand odds and pot odds and I think I play pretty tight, but tend to get a bit looser as the number of opponents decreases.

At the moment I keep playing against pretty much the same friends and the games tend to take the same pattern, I start well and am early chip leader but then tend to lose a lot of chips in the middle part of the game, sometimes recovering to be in the heads up but recently not even managing that.

Most of my friends playing very lose and will try and see the flop every time, I am pretty much the only person who will raise pre flop, but they will often call with sh*t cards and then still beat me on the flop.

Are there any general tips for playing loose players?
Should I go even tighter? Or more aggressive? Or play looser myself?

Any tips very much appreciated.
thanks
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Old Mar 08, 2011, 1:33pm   #2
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play looser and more aggressive.. they play a lot of hands so they dont ever have anything
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Old Mar 08, 2011, 4:17pm   #3
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Play super tight and make large value bets whenever you have any sort of premium or semi premium hand
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Old Mar 08, 2011, 8:26pm   #4
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 12:01am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slippyjim View Post
I have been only playing poker for about 6 months but have read a lot, so I know about starting hands depending on position, hand odds and pot odds and I think I play pretty tight, but tend to get a bit looser as the number of opponents decreases.
good.

Quote:
At the moment I keep playing against pretty much the same friends and the games tend to take the same pattern, I start well and am early chip leader but then tend to lose a lot of chips in the middle part of the game, sometimes recovering to be in the heads up but recently not even managing that.
it sounds like you're playing tournaments? at what kind of stack size (expressed in big blinds) are you finding things start to get away from you? in a game where the blinds don't increase (ie cash games), correct hand selection remains more or less constant, but in a tournament the correct range changes dramatically. it would also be helpful to know how you split the money up, do you play winner takes all, or do you have say, 50% for first, 30% for second and 20% for third?

Quote:
Most of my friends playing very lose and will try and see the flop every time, I am pretty much the only person who will raise pre flop, but they will often call with sh*t cards and then still beat me on the flop.

Are there any general tips for playing loose players?
there are general tips for everything, but they will be less useful than formulating a solid foundation, a theory of poker if you will.

for instance. a winning player's edge comes from exploiting his opponents more effectively than they can exploit him. there is really no simple formula that says tight is good, loose is bad, passive is bad, aggressive is good. tight players are exploitable, loose players are exploitable, passive players are exploitable, aggressive players are exploitable. abc players and creative tricky players are both exploitable. everyone is exploitable.

so in the case of your friends, they like to call a lot, they aren't big on raising. these are loose passive players. they call too much and you exploit this by putting them in a position to make bad calls; making your valuebets as large as they will pay off, and valuebetting weaker holdings than you would against a normal ranged player. if a guy will only pay you off with top pair and at least a T kicker, it's tough to valuebet top pair with a ten yourself. but if he will pay off as low as second pair any kicker, you can valuebet here with confidence.

at the same time, you should be bluffing much less than you would against a tighter player, because you have less fold equity here than you do against an average player.

Quote:
Should I go even tighter? Or more aggressive? Or play looser myself?
you probably are playing too tight in this particular format, i suspect there is an element of fear of losing involved. if you fight with bad loose players, your swings are bigger because you are more exposed to random chance. your winrate is also bigger, but your winrate is a long term thing whereas the swings are immediate. the bottom line is, in a tournament, you do have to get involved or you blind away to nothing.

Kc
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Old Mar 09, 2011, 12:17pm   #6
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Always use a condom.
Haha nice one
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 1:08am   #7
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Killcrazy - thanks for all the info

We basically play a winner takes all, starting with low blinds of 5/10 then raising them every two rounds, not sure if this is convention but just the way we do it...
We usually start with about 900 chips depending on how many people turn up.

I would say I am usually chip leader after 2 blind raises and its somewhere around the 3rd or 4th one I lose my way. But we dont always do the blind raises the same every time sometimes its
5/10
10/20
15/30
20/40
40/80
and other times we miss the 15/30 out
I generally encourage the raises but other people particularly if they are short of chips try n shout me down!

I will give you an example from the last game we played, where I got too excited and went too aggressive - there were 4 people left
blind was 40/80
I had K 8
I raised 40 pre flop, 1 called & 2 folded
flop was K 4 6
I raised the pot
Opponent called
turn was 6
I went all in, so did opponent
she had a 6 8

I couldnt believe she called both my pre flop raise and post flop raise, I didnt think she would carry on with a 6.
Should I have checked on the turn when the 2nd 6 came out?
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 3:37am   #8
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Why a min raise pre-flop? What were your stack sizes?

If opponent is bad enough to call pot sized bets with middle pair on the flop (assuming you are tight/aggressive) then you are in a good game. I wouldn't have gone all in on the turn (actually I have been known to do that too, but I suck at poker).
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 10:44am   #9
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I cant quite remember my stack now, all I can remember is that I didnt have much left thats why I went all in.

Another example from way back, I had pocket kings, did a big raise (2 or 3 times the blind) pre flop and lost to my mate who had 6 3 but hit 2 pair on the flop...

Weve got another game tonight so hopefully I can cut the silly mistakes like that out and get a win!!
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 1:46pm   #10
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Yeah that is just bad luck. It sucks but happens to all of us a fair bit of the time (except for TWLLM who God hates because he is a lawyer and therefore gets 3.5 shares of bad luck as apposed to the standard 1 share).
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