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Old Apr 14, 2011, 5:20pm   #21
acehole_76
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Originally Posted by MRVEGAS View Post
I agree with your "friend". You handled the situation like a pussy instead of a man, imo.





MRV

i disagree this is standard if you can be liable you do what you have to do to no longer be liable.
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 6:03pm   #22
Karsten4130
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The pussy move would have been to say nothing and just hope all goes well.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 6:29pm   #23
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The pussy move would have been to say nothing and just hope all goes well.

that would have been stupid but stupid =/= pussy
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 7:09pm   #24
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i see someone has been paying attention. but i usually use the phrase "predictable consequences". I would question your definition of negligence, however. If I do something dumb because I am drunk, it remains a volitional act because i chose to get drunk whereupon i would be prone to doing dumb shit. doing dumb shit is a predictable consequence of getting drunk.
yes. my negligence in the above situation would be seeing him drunk with the intention to drive, know that my inaction could cause harm, and still not act.
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since we've wandered into a philosophical discussion, where is the cut off for predictability? how obvious does it have to be that if you do x, y will/can follow? if you don't realise it will but i do, are you still responsible? it was after all predictable, because i was able to predict it. does your ignorance absolve you? if so the ignorance of a drunk driver would also absolve him. if one does not dedicate one's entire life to the cultivation of wisdom, then is one not volitionally negligent in this regard? what are the predictable consequences of this?
Morally or legally? If legally, the best definition is probably what a "reasonable person" could predict, and leave it to a judge and jury to define that, since that will change over time anyway as people get smarter. Throw in terms about "willfull" ignorance i.e. the person that doesn't read a warning sign about smoking while filling up his gas tank.

Taken further, we should add that depending on the path you take (i.e. to have kids) the knowledge that is expected of you grows. Good Samaritan laws are a good example of this. You would expect more from an EMT or someone with first aid training than you would from a bystander, thus a bystander fucking it up is more acceptable than an EMT fucking it up. You would hold the EMT responsible for fucking it up.

Which brings us to your point about cultivating knowledge. The bystander could have not fucked it up if he had learned basic first aid skills, which are useful skills. There is certain knowledge that we expect out of any adult, so why not this? I guess the answer is simply that it isn't something he would have been exposed to without actively seeking it out, thus he cannot be expected to seek it out against his will. Humans, through choice, have at least some right in being ignorant if they want to. It is not what is best for society as a whole, but neither is taking a way a person's choice. As people become more educated/intelligent more and more knowledge will become general expectations of the populace, but it will happen passively.

Morally it's similar, but more personal. A system of law can't perfectly know what each person should know, or could know, thus it can't determine perfectly what should be expected of them. If I can foresee the consequences, I am responsible, even if no one else could foresee them. If I could not foresee them, and am not willfully ignorant or lacking in knowledge I should have given the responsibilities I have undertaken, then I'm not responsible.

Another point would be that predictable should include the most likely (or the sum of the) outcome(s). The scenario ace described is predictable, but not as likely as him either not going anywhere that night, or still coming but drinking less. That is weighed against knowing he will drink and drive home.

This is an important distinction because there are plenty of actions that in a vacuum could be enabling someone but the net result will be positive. For example, I had a teacher in high school would before any big holiday type thing would give out his phone number and say "if you need a ride home from somewhere feel free to call. I don't drink and my wife and I can take you home. We will be discrete and it will stay between us." Certainly it's reasonable to predict some people will drink more knowing they have a ride if they need it, but maybe decide they are ok to drive after all and don't want to bother him. But still the net result will likely be fewer people driving drunk.

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in fact, you are simply responsible for the consequences of your actions, regardless of whether they were "predictable". if my wife sends me to retrive the milk from the fridge, and i spill some on the table because a sniper shoots me in the arm, then by what mechanism did the milk come to be spilt if not by my action?
I suppose it depends how we define responsible. A person might be innately responsible for righting the consequences of his actions regardless of whether they were foreseeable, but that is different then the subject at hand (drunk driving).

If an earthquake happens while you are driving and you hit a pedestrian, you should do what you can to make things right. Clean up the body (lets assume the state doesn't do it for you), try to make amends with the family, etc. It wasn't your fault directly, but you still participated.

However, since you could not have predicted that leaving your house to go buy that milk you spilled since you carelessly placed your fridge in los of a window, you will not be responsible for facing punishment.

It's like hitting someones cat. You go knock on their door, apologize, let them know what happened, offer to clean it up, etc. If they demand you give them your cat or that you face criminal charges you kindly tell them to fuck off.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 7:30pm   #25
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LOL, seriously....this has to be the most pansy filled poker forum on the planet.

Some guy drinks a few beers and plays poker with his buds, hes going thru some tough times in life and this is his only "escape" most of his friends play in the game.

Then, the self-righteous "host" instead of consulting his friends seeks advice on a poker forum...

Then in the ultimate act of manliness calls him on the phone instead of speaking to him directly giving the man an ultimatum.

Any Lawyer that tells you that your liable for another man's drinking at a poker game is an idiot.




MRV




P.S. Remember, you all are only getting one side of the story, i GUARANTEE there is more going on than what has been told.
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Last edited by MRVEGAS; Apr 14, 2011 at 7:33pm.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 7:52pm   #26
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Good Samaritan laws are a good example of this
one of my major pet peeves. these laws are full of grey areas and if you do any more then call for help even in the most critical of situations you are taking your financial future in your hands.
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obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc

Last edited by acehole_76; Apr 14, 2011 at 8:01pm.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 7:59pm   #27
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Originally Posted by MRVEGAS View Post
Any Lawyer that tells you that your liable for another man's drinking at a poker game is an idiot

you are wrong but if you care to make a bet.

my side is if a person gets drunk in a place you own with you there then drives home and kills some one you can be held liable both criminally and financially in the united states. I say this is correct and I will bet up 10k on it. if you care to take this bet please reply MRV.
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 8:00pm   #28
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LOL, seriously....this has to be the most pansy filled poker forum on the planet.

logic



MRV




P.S. Remember, you all are only getting one side of the story, i GUARANTEE there is more going on than what has been told.

who gives a shit?
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Originally Posted by killcrazy View Post
obviously, it's always my fault whenever anyone does anything stupid around here.

fucking morons every one of you. there isn't a man in this village that i wouldn't feed into an incinerator for no reason other than to get rid of them.

Kc
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 8:21pm   #29
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one of my major pet peeves. these laws are full of grey areas and if you do any more then call for help even in the most critical of situations you are taking your financial future in your hands.
links? I've heard of cases where it didn't apply, but it was usually stupid shit like pulling someone from a car when there was no danger, or attempting surgeries you don't know how to do. I've never heard of someone giving basic first aid/cpr and being held responsible for damages.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 8:37pm   #30
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Originally Posted by acehole_76 View Post
you are wrong but if you care to make a bet.

my side is if a person gets drunk in a place you own with you there then drives home and kills some one you can be held liable both criminally and financially in the united states. I say this is correct and I will bet up 10k on it. if you care to take this bet please reply MRV.

I'd love to take your money, some twit in England coaching me on American judical system.

Google Leslie Ballin...you complete utter dumbfuck.




MRV
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