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Old May 25, 2011, 10:01am   #11
podbelski
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8' table 2, T8s on K25tt77
that was sick from my point of view but I guess if it you were the PFR, it's a fold on the river?

There isnt a single hand I would take that line with so it isnt something to consider.
The line is completely senseless and I think you will see a desperation bluff there well over 70% of the time. I would call fast with A high and some Q highs and "re-desperation bluff" anything worse.

I mean, if you were raising pre and the fish called OOP, then check-called flop-turn and donked the river, it looks stronger compared to as played. It could easily be a slowplay, or maybe any 7x. Sometimes a bluff of course. Do I understand you right - you say even in this case the line is too FOS? So prob I'm giving it too much credit by folding...

Like here (the opp is 62/1 with about 50% rievr AFq), bad fold?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed)

UTG ($85.45)
MP ($40.75)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($50)
BB ($37.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, 9
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero bets $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75) 4, 9, 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.20, UTG calls $3.20

Turn: ($11.15) 10 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $6.50, UTG calls $6.50

River: ($24.15) J (2 players)
UTG bets $10, Hero folds

Total pot: $24.15 | Rake: $1.20

Last edited by podbelski; May 25, 2011 at 1:48pm.
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:08am   #12
podbelski
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28' table 1, A9o on 425tt BvB
do you fold to a standard cbet here?

I think I misplayed that hand because I was more focused on 3bet pot with the whale at the same time. I should have at least checked if that player ck raised as PR raiser often. If yes I should have just checked it down.

If he cbet it would depend a lot on is steal % from the SB and his cbet frequencies.

Against a very wide range I probably would call. Against a tighter range I might raise. Against a very tight range I would fold (or maybe use that as preflop 3bet bluff if he has around a 20% preflop range)

So against a very wide range I think the hand is to good to bluff raise with, I could bluff raise with worse hands (pretty much anything). Against a tighter range the hand is iffy to call so as one of best I want to fold Ill bluff with it.

that's pretty solid. So, if you bluffraise, and he calls, I guess there will be a ton of "it depends" on the later streets. But anyway, are there some general clues to consider? Like maybe the best cards to barrel, or some stats for the villain that make barreling look worse/better?
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:28pm   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by podbelski View Post
8' table 2, T8s on K25tt77
I mean, if you were raising pre and the fish called OOP, then check-called flop-turn and donked the river, it looks stronger compared to as played. It could easily be a slowplay, or maybe any 7x. Sometimes a bluff of course. Do I understand you right - you say even in this case the line is too FOS? So prob I'm giving it too much credit by folding...


Like here (the opp is 62/1 with about 50% rievr AFq), bad fold?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed)

UTG ($85.45)
MP ($40.75)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($50)
BB ($37.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, 9
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero bets $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75) 4, 9, 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.20, UTG calls $3.20

Turn: ($11.15) 10 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $6.50, UTG calls $6.50

River: ($24.15) J (2 players)
UTG bets $10, Hero folds

Total pot: $24.15 | Rake: $1.20
In this hand, he almost never will have complete air. The board texture is one reason but also note the sizing difference. This looks much more like a blocking bet than a complete bluff. I still probably would call though with your hand.

Fish to really non-sensical things sometimes I would expect to lose very often but win enough to make the odds-call. A jam might be okay depending on his tendencies but is much different than in my hand in that your actually trying to get him to fold a pair.
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:34pm   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by podbelski View Post
28' table 1, A9o on 425tt BvB
do you fold to a standard cbet here?

I think I misplayed that hand because I was more focused on 3bet pot with the whale at the same time. I should have at least checked if that player ck raised as PR raiser often. If yes I should have just checked it down.

If he cbet it would depend a lot on is steal % from the SB and his cbet frequencies.

Against a very wide range I probably would call. Against a tighter range I might raise. Against a very tight range I would fold (or maybe use that as preflop 3bet bluff if he has around a 20% preflop range)

So against a very wide range I think the hand is to good to bluff raise with, I could bluff raise with worse hands (pretty much anything). Against a tighter range the hand is iffy to call so as one of best I want to fold Ill bluff with it.

that's pretty solid. So, if you bluffraise, and he calls, I guess there will be a ton of "it depends" on the later streets. But anyway, are there some general clues to consider? Like maybe the best cards to barrel, or some stats for the villain that make barreling look worse/better?
Yeah its going to depend on a lot of things. Generally here I think just a bluff raise and ck down is actually ok sometimes. You get to realize your equity and stop him from bluffing you. But there are some comboish things that will call the flop raise AND the turn barrel often so if you bet the turn its shoving time on river.

As for what turns are good to bomb pretty much anything I think. 245 defintely the worst but I dont even think that bad. Against some players I bet turn and shove river if I bing a 9 on turn some I might ck behind river.

So much of this is going to depend on what his opening range from the SB is.
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:37pm   #15
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great, thank you very much!
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Old May 26, 2011, 4:54pm   #16
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Default another T8-like hand...

The villain is an unknown fish, after 6 hands seen him isoing a limper and that's it.

What can we safely put him on here?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed)

BB ($46.24)
UTG ($57.85)
MP ($98.12)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($26.18 )

Preflop: Hero is Button with XX
2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 7, 8, 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB calls $2.50

Turn: ($8.25) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $7, BB calls $7

River: ($22.25) A (2 players)
BB bets $15 (having about $20 left behind), Hero thinks about folding everything but a straight...

Last edited by podbelski; May 26, 2011 at 5:09pm.
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Old May 27, 2011, 12:34am   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by podbelski View Post
The villain is an unknown fish, after 6 hands seen him isoing a limper and that's it.

What can we safely put him on here?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed)

BB ($46.24)
UTG ($57.85)
MP ($98.12)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($26.18 )

Preflop: Hero is Button with XX
2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 7, 8, 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB calls $2.50

Turn: ($8.25) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $7, BB calls $7

River: ($22.25) A (2 players)
BB bets $15 (having about $20 left behind), Hero thinks about folding everything but a straight...
While his line is definitely silly and bad I think he will have a straight here sometimes , some aces up, and maybe a few desperation bluffs.

The difference between here and the T8 hand is the board texture...
I dont think a fish will ever ck call two streets a strongish hand on that board with two flush draws.

But here he might decide he doesnt want to scare you with a raise on the turn but doesnt want to miss value now on river. Maybe he has been putting you on AK since I hear fish like to that.

Also the ace isnt a complete brick he can have aces up sometimes where in the 108 hand trip 7's was extremly unlikely.
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Old May 30, 2011, 12:12am   #18
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Ok, so calling with a set is probably fine... I had the nuts, so I shoved and he folded.

One more hand I'm not sure about is a TT vs a donkey on table 4. You squeezed preflop, cbet 335 flop and just called his check-minraise. In my experience, flop check-minraise is like "a pair" the majority of the time. Given that TT is vulnerable to overcards, as well as his pair might be scared by say an A on the turn, I think 3betting looks better than calling. You can get all-in with all of his worse pairs, and fold some 3/6-outer bluffs (like he had) that have a chance to suck out on you. So, do you still think calling his check-raise is the best play?
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Old May 30, 2011, 1:59am   #19
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Originally Posted by podbelski View Post
Ok, so calling with a set is probably fine... I had the nuts, so I shoved and he folded.

One more hand I'm not sure about is a TT vs a donkey on table 4. You squeezed preflop, cbet 335 flop and just called his check-minraise. In my experience, flop check-minraise is like "a pair" the majority of the time. Given that TT is vulnerable to overcards, as well as his pair might be scared by say an A on the turn, I think 3betting looks better than calling. You can get all-in with all of his worse pairs, and fold some 3/6-outer bluffs (like he had) that have a chance to suck out on you. So, do you still think calling his check-raise is the best play?
I agree with you against that guy if the flop was like 974. But on 335 it is just so hard for a to have anything that his is going to have air a lot. His range preflop was basically any two cards expect the top 15% or so

Last edited by joeyjoejoejr; May 30, 2011 at 2:05am.
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Old Nov 05, 2011, 6:35am   #20
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would like to watch this one too

"Sorry, the file you requested is not available."

sendspace really sucks balls imo

can u reup/ up on megaupload or whatever please?
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