THE FORUMS


German ForumsGeneral DiscussionStrategyFrench Forum
Old Apr 21, 2010, 5:49pm   #1
Wino Whines
Flop Artist
 
Wino Whines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wine Country
Posts: 56
Reputation: 9
Wino Whines is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Paying off at the river

With Limit, it seems as though you are always getting the odds to pay someone off when HU at the river (and getting paid off as well) even when you you are fairly certain you are beat.

Most of these time you are holding top or middle pair to a draw board and pretty certain when villain hits and/or has you out kicked. Are those rare occasions when your hand holds up enough to almost always make the call on the river?

Is it just the nature of Limit that you most often have to pay people off here?
__________________
"I feel very humble, but I think I have the strength of character to fight it."
Wino Whines est déconnecté   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old Apr 21, 2010, 6:44pm   #2
killcrazy
Apex Predator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 10,307
Reputation: 8118
killcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond reputekillcrazy has a reputation beyond repute
This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile! This member received this PokerTips Exclamation Mark for one of a number of reasons: blogging, winning a contest, contributing great content, etc. Keep an eye out for chances to receive one of these by your profile!
Default

as with everything, you have to think about his range, how much of it you can beat, and what the pot is laying you.

you're going to make a lot of math calls on the river where you have a very low win percentage but are being paid so much that the call is correct. sometimes it isn't, when it isn't fold. there isn't a rule of thumb here, you have to make a decision.

Kc
__________________
"Blah blah blah KC is right" - Ozone
killcrazy est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:04pm   #3
Ozone
The One Who Knocks
 
Ozone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Internet
Posts: 5,034
Reputation: 2425
Ozone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond reputeOzone has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Ozone
Default

You're pretty much spot-on, Wino. A leak a lot of beginning limit hold'em players have is not realizing they are getting fantastic pot odds to call on the river. If the pot is $10 and there's a $1 bet on the river, you only need to think you've got about a 10% chance to win the pot for this to be a correct call (10% > $1/$11). Welcome to limit hold'em. You won't fold a whole lot on the river which is why it's important to make a good decision on the turn because calling a turn bet is really like calling two big bets most of the time.
__________________
ItsOrangeNotRed.com

"How do I become more pro? I gotta learn math?" - fuedallord
Ozone est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2010, 7:46pm   #4
Boomer2k6
TWLLM'ing My Showdowns
 
Boomer2k6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northwich, Cheshire, England
Posts: 1,995
Reputation: 189
Boomer2k6 has a spectacular aura aboutBoomer2k6 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Boomer2k6 Send a message via MSN to Boomer2k6 Send a message via Skype™ to Boomer2k6
Default

This is where reads on your opponent come in and how you've structured the hand before the river.

There are some players I've played against where you'd have to get a pair out of my hands with a pack of wolves but against others I'd fold TPTK on the river with confidence to a river raise.

One thing being that humans naturally are terrible at guesstimating statistical probabilities like whether something will happen 1 in 8 times or 1 in 15 becasue it's hard to visualise. It gets easier with experience and work but it's certainly not easy to start off.
__________________
BLOG FWIW!!

Limit Holdem: Because All 4 Streets Matter!!

You've Nowhere to Hide
Nowhere to Run
You're Rage, It'll
BURN Like the Heart of the Sun!!
With Infinite Glee
It's Going to be Me
That Minbets The World!!!

Boomer2k6 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2010, 12:25am   #5
Wino Whines
Flop Artist
 
Wino Whines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wine Country
Posts: 56
Reputation: 9
Wino Whines is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Yeah, the nature of Limit hold'em unfortunately.

One thing that I have done that saves me some $$ is to lead or raise/ck raise early on the flop where it is much cheaper to flush out the read for later streets because so many float overs too long and will usually 3-bet you with the goods.

And, of course when in pos. and you think you might be beat and/or know your opponent is betting, check call the river no mater what.

Limit is definitely about not missing bets and saving bets.
__________________
"I feel very humble, but I think I have the strength of character to fight it."
Wino Whines est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 2011, 4:27pm   #6
BamaAlum97
Fish
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1
Reputation: 0
BamaAlum97 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

If you have middle pair on a draw heavy board that is getting a lot of action, you are very likely beat. Your pot equity has to be quite small in this situation and would require a very large pot to make calling correct.
BamaAlum97 est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 27, 2011, 11:31pm   #7
4Kings
Brunson
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 182
Reputation: 19
4Kings is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaAlum97 View Post
If you have middle pair on a draw heavy board that is getting a lot of action, you are very likely beat. Your pot equity has to be quite small in this situation and would require a very large pot to make calling correct.
if your pot odds say you can call, then you should call
__________________
i like to play, only if its playmoney
4Kings est déconnecté   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 2:20am. vBulletin 3.7.4 Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.