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Old Oct 26, 2011, 3:05pm   #1
DrCribbens
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I'd like some opinions of this hand, if you'd be so kind.

#Game No : 354997629
***** Cassava Hand History for Game 354997629 *****
$0.15/$0.30 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 26 10 2011 06:57:03
Table Bitola (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: mattwangyiwe ( $47.06 )
Seat 2: Katuz71 ( $30 )
Seat 3: sagadue ( $30 )
Seat 4: tfcdesz ( $36.97 )
Seat 5: DrCribbens ( $29.21 )
Seat 6: riverking.1 ( $30.77 )
Seat 9: vilapoker ( $30.45 )
Seat 10: dribzy88 ( $28.95 )
riverking.1 posts small blind [$0.15]
vilapoker posts big blind [$0.30]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DrCribbens [ Ad, Kc ]
dribzy88 raises [$0.90]
mattwangyiwe folds
Katuz71 folds
sagadue calls [$0.90]
tfcdesz folds
DrCribbens calls [$0.90]
riverking.1 folds
vilapoker calls [$0.60]
** Dealing flop ** [ 5s, 4d, Qh ]
vilapoker checks
dribzy88 checks
sagadue checks
DrCribbens checks
** Dealing turn ** [ 4c ]
vilapoker checks
dribzy88 checks
sagadue bets [$3.75]
DrCribbens calls [$3.75]
vilapoker folds
dribzy88 folds
** Dealing river ** [ Td ]
sagadue bets [$5.62]
DrCribbens raises [$24.56]
sagadue folds
** Summary **
DrCribbens collected [ $21.37 ]

The villain was fairly aggressive but I hadn't been at the table long enough to get a solid read. My logic was that it was doubtful he would have called a raise PF with any hand that would have connected with the flop in a big enough way for him to slow play the flop, unless he'd flopped a set.

When he bet on the turn that narrowed his range down for me - either 44, 55 or QQ. I thought the most likely was 55, because 44 would have given him quads and with QQ I thought a reraise would have been fairly likely PF. Although at this level that's a million miles away from being guaranteed, obv.

But what made me think it was a bluff was the size of his bet on the turn. It was a pot sized bet. The only hands I could put him on were monsters. I just couldn't see him checking the flop with AQ, KQ etc. So why the big bet unless he really didn't want to get called? I decided at this stage that he was bluffing.

I could have reraised him here but I just called. I can't give you any reason why I did that, to be honest.

The river card wasn't great for me, but I'd already decided he was bluffing. What could he have had that changed things on the river? TT? AT? How would that fit in with the bets he'd already made? With anything other than TT, he's going to be worried by a reraise from me at this stage.

I really didn't want my reraise to be called, and I wanted to look a bit like a donk who'd stumbled onto some sort of monster, so I went all-in. He instafolded.

I've got a couple of reasons for posting this hand. First of all, writing it down sort of sorts it out in my own head. Secondly, would you have made the same reads I did? Was it sound logic? Thirdly, what about the AI on the river? Was this overkill? Was I needlessly risking my entire stack when a smaller bet would have done the job?

OK, three reasons.

Your thoughts are appreciated.
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Old Oct 26, 2011, 6:01pm   #2
Ozone
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Yea that seems pretty bad. You need that bluff to get through a really high percentage of the time in order to be good, and I dunno just based on his line and a general feel about the hand, I don't think you get folds often enough.

3-bet preflop, yo!
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Old Oct 26, 2011, 6:38pm   #3
killcrazy
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3bet pre. everyone is going to tell you that, and they're right.

a read is a read, there's really nothing we can say about a read. it's either right or it's wrong. if your reads are generally right, use them. if you can't read for shit, don't rely on them to make decisions.

but if you think he's bluffing, the question to ask is what is he bluffing with? if your read is that he has a set or air, which seems to be what you're describing, then calling is much better than raising.

he isn't going to fold a set, nor is he going to call with air. you're going to win the pot exactly as often by calling as you are by raising, and you're going to win exactly the same amount of money in either instance. however while you are also going to lose the pot the same amount of the time regardless of whether you call or raise, you are going to lose far more money by raising.

yeah?

how and ever. i don't think you can really narrow him down to nuts or nothing. by your own admission you haven't played enough with him to have a solid line on his play. another thought, you're looking for hands that flopped big and slowplayed, which omits a hand like A4s. flopped bottom pair and checked, turned trips and bet. he could also have something like 77 or perhaps a five; vulnerable hands which figure to be best when it's checked to him twice, big bet to fold out the overcards which are live against him.

as played i'd fold the turn.

Kc
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Old Oct 27, 2011, 11:42pm   #4
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$0.15/$0.30 No Limit Holdem
888
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($28.95)
UTG+1 ($47.06)
MP1 ($30)
MP2 ($30)
CO ($36.97)
Hero (BTN) ($29.21)
SB ($30.77)
BB ($30.45)

Pre-Flop: ($0.45, 8 players) Hero is BTN
UTG raises to $0.90, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.90, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.75, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3.75, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75, BB folds, UTG folds

River: ($11.25, 2 players)
MP2 bets $5.62, Hero goes all-in $24.56, MP2 folds

Final Pot: $41.43

Hero wins $40.31 (net +$11.10)

MP2 lost $10.27
BB lost $0.90
UTG lost $0.90

it isnt that hard to convert hands if you are looking for serious replies .. makes it easier for everyone just sayin'

long story short:

his Turnbettingrange isnt that narrow as you suggested (assuming is fairly active/loosish/whatever tad type Preflop)

so if hes calling QTs QJ KQ type hands against an UTG open (people love to call although I dont play FR .. so I dont know how tight the games are nowadays .. but my basic assumption is most of the time they are weak tight/loose against utg and call way to much) so with said hands I can see him checking the flop a large percentage of the time to avoid getting raised / blowing up the pot multiway .. so basically going ahead with his Preflopline and just potcontrol here

after you check behind the flop and utg checking twice (we are OTT now) is an hand like QJ/KQ basically the nutz ergo betting Pot is the right betsize with his bluffs and a widen valuerange

its pretty hard to do something about in this particular spot.. but if you think he has a wide bluffingrange here / is capable of reflecting his/your/the range of the other participants, you have def a solid bluffcatcher to look him up (as Kc mentioned) its way better than 77 because you have 3-6outs instead of 2 (although a K is a bit dirty)

long story short:

if you see him pulling off good bluffs/bad bluffs and recognized him as beeing active .. I dont mind bluffcatching here

in reality I dont think hes bluffing the River ever with this sizing and bluffshoving is pretty bad because you only really rep TT and a weird slowplay with QQ

oh yeah and 3betting or not PRE depends on UTGs raise first range / your generell BTN 3bet .. calling is def. not that bad if UTG is a standard TAG
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Old Oct 27, 2011, 11:48pm   #5
BeluA
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edit:

bottom line is (after rethinking the hole thing)

you either give him credit for beeing a good handreader (pulling up a bluff/valuebet OTT) in which case you cant bluffraise the River (for obv reasons) or hes a retarded and clicking random buttons / is tight and is just valuebetting (in which case your Turncall his pretty bad)
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 6:50am   #6
DrCribbens
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Thanks for the replies. I'll have a think about what you've written.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 6:06pm   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeluA View Post
$0.15/$0.30 No Limit Holdem
888
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($28.95)
UTG+1 ($47.06)
MP1 ($30)
MP2 ($30)
CO ($36.97)
Hero (BTN) ($29.21)
SB ($30.77)
BB ($30.45)

Pre-Flop: ($0.45, 8 players) Hero is BTN
UTG raises to $0.90, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.90, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.75, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3.75, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75, BB folds, UTG folds

River: ($11.25, 2 players)
MP2 bets $5.62, Hero goes all-in $24.56, MP2 folds

Final Pot: $41.43

Hero wins $40.31 (net +$11.10)

MP2 lost $10.27
BB lost $0.90
UTG lost $0.90

it isnt that hard to convert hands if you are looking for serious replies .. makes it easier for everyone just sayin'
I'm not sure why but i find the unconverted hands easier to read.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 7:32pm   #8
BeluA
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not sure if Bot or Chuck Testa.jpeg
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 9:08pm   #9
killcrazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeluA View Post
not sure if Bot or Chuck Testa.jpeg
see, this is why a certain other forum needs a secret handshake, but whenever the subject is raised, it, like every other thread, immediately descends into casual racism, homophobia, paedophilia, bestiality and interracial gay bestial kiddie fucking.

actually i think that description pretty much does the job.

Kc
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 9:33pm   #10
BeluA
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What are you referring to?
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