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Old Jul 20, 2012, 2:03pm   #21
killcrazy
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Hilarious if that horse actually won.
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It actually did.
Today's nap is probably Cruise Tothelimit, 15:40 at Haydock, 11/4.

Professor in the 14:30 is also interesting, if untried, but looks a price at 9/5.

Kc
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 3:45pm   #22
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Today's nap is probably Cruise Tothelimit, 15:40 at Haydock, 11/4.
ding.

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Professor in the 14:30 is also interesting, if untried, but looks a price at 9/5.
ding.

Kc
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 11:18pm   #23
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You have to work out why you want to play poker.

If you want to play to make money then you need to read everything you can find (including advice from sites like this), think about everything, study hard, review every hand you play, study hard, discuss hands that you aren't sure about, study hard and occasionally play some poker. At your stage I am guessing that maybe 10% of your poker time should be spent playing - figure plucked out of thin air but I would bet I am closer to the correct level than your estimate.

If (like me) you play for enjoyment in the same way you might go out for a meal or go to the cinema, then just work out how to maximise your enjoyment from the money that you can afford to lose each month. But be honest about why you play, it doesn't mean you don't try to play your best or get better, just that you have realistic expectations about what will happen.

For your information, this advice comes from a losing player who will always be a losing player (in cash terms) even when he wins sometimes.
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it's rather ironic that scenes like this are best accompanied by the eating of popcorn.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 2:56am   #24
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You have to work out why you want to play poker.

If you want to play to make money then you need to read everything you can find (including advice from sites like this), think about everything, study hard, review every hand you play, study hard, discuss hands that you aren't sure about, study hard and occasionally play some poker. At your stage I am guessing that maybe 10% of your poker time should be spent playing - figure plucked out of thin air but I would bet I am closer to the correct level than your estimate.
i actually think it's around 50/50. what's more important is what you play and what you study.

OP's strategy is basically a form of martingale. he has $10 so he plays a $10 game. if he wins then he plays a $20 game, if he loses he writes about it on the internet. i gave him a cast iron bankroll strategy last time he popped his head up, naturally he's ignored it.

and that's why ozone isn't giving him advice any more and i am actively taking the piss out of him. it's like teaching a hamster physics; its brain just can't cope with it, and even if it could the first time someone offered it a peanut it would abandon the reactor controls peradventure the yummy peanut might find its way into one of his little pouches.

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If (like me) you play for enjoyment in the same way you might go out for a meal or go to the cinema, then just work out how to maximise your enjoyment from the money that you can afford to lose each month. But be honest about why you play, it doesn't mean you don't try to play your best or get better, just that you have realistic expectations about what will happen.
you seem to be confused, this thread is now a horse racing thread.

nap is the showpiece. ascot, 16:35, nathaniel at 3/1. nb is steps at 7/2 in the 14:35 at newmarket.

if you fancy your hand at trading; imperator augustus is sitting on betfair at a ridiculous 28/1, i fancy its true odds for somewhere around 12/1, so bung half a bet on it now and lay it off either at the start or in running somewhere around that price.

Kc
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 5:17pm   #25
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ascot, 16:35, nathaniel at 3/1.
lost by a nose. traded as low as 1/10. disgraceful

fortunately:

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steps at 7/2 in the 14:35 at newmarket.
ding!

less said about imperator augustus the better, but i got off him at 14/1 so we'll call that a push.

that puts us up 11.55 units. tomorrow you will start following my bets, and it will all go horribly wrong.

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Old Aug 13, 2012, 10:51am   #26
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Link me to the iron clad bankroll posts you made please. My birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks and I'll have 200 to safely deposit, biggest yet. THAT will be the last time I deposit money into poker in an attempt to win money, since I think 200 is a somewhat decent amount.

It's probably not worth mentioning but when I had still had money in my account I registered for a 5k guaranteed tournament at midnight on saturday. I had found some bud after several months and had smoked up, and had a 40oz of beer that I half drank. The buy in was 11 dollars or something. First prize was 1k. Surprisingly I made it a few seats short of the bubble. There were thirty something players left and the bubble started at 25, 57 dollars, and 1st was 1000. I was in the top 10, then lost my stack in two hands. I had about 40k, average stack was 20k, first place was around 90k. I forget the blinds, but I called a raise in the BB with 82 for some reason, coming from late position. Flop was 8 7 7. I check, raiser bets, I call. Turn was another 7 so I had a full house, I check, raiser bets, I call. The river is a king, I check, raiser bets, and I called hoping he didn't have a king, He had ace king. I lost 10 k there and became steamed and nervous that the blinds would eliminate me, so I limped out of position with a drawing hand, got raised , called the raise, missed the flop and folded. Then I was down to 20k with AK suited in middle pos, a person with 20 k to my right with QQ went all in and I called, hoping I Could get back to where I was and play tight, got the ace on the flop, turn was a Queen. I got eliminated.

Each hand that I won to get to 40k the more nervous I became. The closer I got to the bubble the more nervous I got. Do you think there's anyway I could have won that hand with 82 against AK when the AK had nothing until the river? I was depressed for several days after that, I couldn't sleep for a while, just because I was so close with a healthy stack and just lost it all in 30 seconds when I'd been playing for over 3 hours and got nothing.

Also, most of the chips I won in that tournament came from calling busted semi bluffs, and semi bluffs when I actually had a hand. Deep in the tournament I won 10k with a turned straight against a guy with KQ with no K or Q on the board, which I found strange.

Last edited by feudallord; Aug 13, 2012 at 11:00am.
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 1:24pm   #27
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My advice:

1. Grow some balls
2. Actually listen to advice
3. Use math
4. Actually listen to advice
5. Stop sucking

if unsuccessful in any of the five steps, quit. But by all means continue to create threads for my entertainment.
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 4:37pm   #28
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Link me to the iron clad bankroll posts you made please.
is there a reason you can't go and find it yourself?

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My birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks and I'll have 200 to safely deposit, biggest yet.
do yourself a favour and don't. look, you are shit at this game, you are never going to be anything other than shit at this game. that doesn't make you a bad person, it says nothing of your sexual preference or prowess, it doesn't mean you will never be a commercial airline pilot or build a treehouse or find a hat that you really like. it just means that you're shit at poker. instead of playing poker, why not go shopping and see if you can find a hat that you really like. this seems like a much better use of $200.

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THAT will be the last time I deposit money into poker in an attempt to win money, since I think 200 is a somewhat decent amount.
it isn't.

using the formula BR = - ( (sd^2) / (2*winrate) ) ln (risk of ruin), and assuming a standard deviation of 100BB, we see that a modest cash game winner earning around 0.5BB/100 hands needs a bankroll of two hundred and thirty buyins to ensure a risk of ruin lower than 1%. if you were looking to play $5 buyin games, that would require a bankroll of $1150.

now for a losing player, say someone who is -0.5BB/100 hands, a 1% risk of ruin requires a bankroll of minus nine hundred and twenty one buyins. again for a $5 buyin player, that would be -$4605.

do you have -$4605? no, you have $200. you are unexfoliatingly fucked because you have too much money, and the best thing you can do is get rid of it as quickly as possible.

the more observant reader may have already noticed that in the case of a breakeven player, this formula would mandate division by zero, and were a true breakeven player to ever exist, his participation would cause the entire universe to collapse into a gloop roughly the size and consistency of a generous helping of seedless raspberry jam. fortunately no such player has ever existed, and anyone who claims to have broken even merely lost slightly less than his wife would find out about.

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It's probably not worth mentioning but when I had still had money in my account I registered for a 5k guaranteed tournament at midnight on saturday. I had found some bud after several months and had smoked up, and had a 40oz of beer that I half drank.
dude you are officially off the hook. half a beer /and/ a small amount of three month old ditch weed. that has to make you like the second or third coolest person in your kitchen.

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The buy in was 11 dollars or something. First prize was 1k. Surprisingly I made it a few seats short of the bubble. There were thirty something players left and the bubble started at 25, 57 dollars, and 1st was 1000.
$11 buyin, $5k prize pool, 25 people paid, first gets 20%, 25th gets 1.14%...doesn't really add up but okay

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I was in the top 10, then lost my stack in two hands. I had about 40k, average stack was 20k, first place was around 90k. I forget the blinds, but I called a raise in the BB with 82 for some reason
you should have reraised all in.

i'm not actually taking the piss here, reraising all in is undoubtedly your best move here. obviously you can't fold 82, that would just be silly, and calling is terrible; you're out of position, you only flop top pair about 4.5% of the time, when you do you have the worst possible kicker and he has 2 overcards and 6 outs twice about 90% of the time. you have to reraise, show strength, get him to fold his hand some of the time, since you're inevitably going to do something stupid on later streets and get your money in anyway, get it in now and maximise your fold equity.

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coming from late position. Flop was 8 7 7. I check, raiser bets, I call.
brilliant! by check-calling you tie yourself to checking on the turn, meaning he can take the river for free, and the chances of a court card coming on the turn or river where your hand suddenly goes from being top pair to being a pile of shit is only, what, 67.5%? of course if he has a better 8 than you, or if he has an overpair or a seven, he's probably going to bet again, but you are in such awesome shape against 32 that you absolutely must trap with this hand.

Quote:
Turn was another 7 so I had a full house, I check, raiser bets, I call.
again, great play. think about his range here. if he has an overpair or a seven, well, all the money is going in, nothing you can do about it. if he has overcards then he probably realises you have an 8 now you've checked and called twice, so you aren't going to be able to get him to call a bet here or on the river. the best thing you can do is check, hope that he improves to a better full house than yours and bets again. that's the only way you can get more money in the pot.

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The river is a king, I check, raiser bets, and I called hoping he didn't have a king, He had ace king. I lost 10 k there and became steamed and nervous that the blinds would eliminate me,
so you had 40k, the average was 20k, you lost 10k meaning you now have a mere 150% of an average stack with the bubble rapidly approaching. add to that you were in "the top ten" with 40k meaning you were likely ~9th, so there are 8 guys taking between 40k and 90k out of circulation and logically therefore a whole bunch of people with far fewer chips than you in far worse shape who were going to get carved up by the blinds far faster than you...yeah you probably need to loosen up and gamble here, you might have to widen your range to include 72 as well as 82.

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so I limped out of position with a drawing hand
very strong. absolutely no way anybody could put you on that hand.

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got raised , called the raise, missed the flop and folded.
you should have played your joker for double points.

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Then I was down to 20k with AK suited in middle pos, a person with 20 k to my right with QQ went all in and I called, hoping I Could get back to where I was and play tight, got the ace on the flop, turn was a Queen. I got eliminated.
and when you tell the story of your tournament it gets redacted to "AK<QQ can i win a flip one time?"

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Each hand that I won to get to 40k the more nervous I became. The closer I got to the bubble the more nervous I got.
you get nervous over $50? and you think depositing $200 is a good move?

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Do you think there's anyway I could have won that hand with 82 against AK when the AK had nothing until the river?
given that you let him draw for free on every street. no.

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I was depressed for several days after that
not really. depression is a mood disorder characterised by feelings of hopelessness, helplessness, worthlessness, etc caused by neurotransmitter imbalance. what you're experiencing is due to being genuinely hopeless, helpless and worthless.

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I couldn't sleep for a while, just because I was so close with a healthy stack and just lost it all in 30 seconds when I'd been playing for over 3 hours and got nothing.
yeah. what you should really do is keep playing this game that makes you feel great and enhances your financial situation and social life.

Quote:
Also, most of the chips I won in that tournament came from calling busted semi bluffs, and semi bluffs when I actually had a hand. Deep in the tournament I won 10k with a turned straight against a guy with KQ with no K or Q on the board, which I found strange.
i'm still getting over the frequency with which you apparently manage to escape from the lab.

Kc
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 7:33am   #29
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Yo, I Read your post, and taking out the cynical/sarcastic tone, I suppose it was somewhat helpful.

I didn't want to call with 82. I NEVER play 82, regardless of my position. I called the raise because he had the same stack size as me, and hoped I could hit the flop. Isn't that the whole implied odds thing? I go over that hand a lot, thinking of ways I could've gotten the opponent off ace king without pairing it on the board. The problem was all the sevens between the flop and river. He certainly must have been sure I didn't have a 7 which made it obvious that I had an 8 since I kept check calling his bets starting from the flop. I imagine if I made a reraise preflop, then either check raised all in or check raised, he maybe would have folded? But that would have been an incredibly risky play.

All sarcasm aside, I would really like to know your thoughts on the reasoning behind playing the 82 which was simply that in my head the field was very small, very close to the bubble, and the blinds were very large. I was in the top 10 at this point. Basically I mean if you're in the top 10 with 30 players left is it safe to wait for strong cards? I figure if you manage to get something better than 82 which is almost anything really you steal the blinds and have another full rotation of cards, and the possibility of more players being eliminated. Like I played that hand because I was afraid of getting blinded out.

Also I don't know if you've seen the one drop tournament on youtube but there was a hand where antonio reraised Rast preflop and rast folded. Rast had AJ and antonio had 82. For some reason that hand flashed in my head during the tournament and I hit the call button. The only difference was antonio had a massive chip advantage and 3bet preflop. If I didn't pair the 8 it would have been an easy fold. And the other thing is I was down to 30k after that hand, and I became very disappointed. The whole time I thought I had a chance at the big prizes (top 3) because I"d been doing so well for 3 hours straight, and when I lost that hand I basically lost hope. Was it not warranted? Seriously though man. I made it far in that fucker, I wasn't nervous about 50 dollars I really thought I had a chance at first.

Last edited by feudallord; Aug 14, 2012 at 7:38am.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 8:32am   #30
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wow...i haven't been posting in the forums for a very long time...but this guy just made me think about a comeback...this has to be a level..hahaha.. just awsome..this is the entertaining stuff i missed...

not coming back just for laughs though, obviously im here to give advice too..so OP, look for "doyle brunson WSOP 1976" on youtube, and you'll see a legend player win the world series of poker, with 10-2!!! you might take that in your arsenal as well!!

and good luck at the tables...i guess you really need it!
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